Mini Classifieds

LOTS OF 1971-1973 PARTS FOR SALE
Date: 02/03/2018 11:28 am
'76 Wagon Driver Side Rear Interior Panel
Date: 11/11/2019 04:49 pm
1971 Pinto Runabout turn key driver

Date: 07/01/2019 12:23 pm
1973 Pinto Pangra

Date: 07/08/2019 10:09 pm
1971 Pinto

Date: 03/04/2017 11:28 pm
Crane Cam
Date: 02/26/2018 07:50 am
71-73 Rear valance panel
Date: 01/14/2021 06:54 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
79 pinto small parts
Date: 04/24/2019 03:16 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,895
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,581
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 1,293
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 165
  • Total: 165
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Where can I find a shock bolt for front shocks?

Started by ADaughen, August 11, 2009, 03:40:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ADaughen

Yeah, I just cut it out and punched out the pieces rusted into the lower control arm.

If I can source some inexpensive wheels or wheel spacers she'll be aback on two of her fours soon. 

Still waiting to get some money for the 8.8 rear to be finished up.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

71hotrodpinto

Hay no problem!
Glad it worked out! Did you ever get the old shock off?


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

ADaughen

Measurements were dead on.

Thanks!

$1.60 side wasn't terrible for nut and bolt, too.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

ADaughen

Wonderful company called Grainger has any bolt I need.   :lol:


I now have 8 extras on order b/c the smallest box they come in is 10. 
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

ADaughen

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on August 14, 2009, 01:07:11 AM
looks to be a nice little car. I like the 16" mustang Rims your rollin on there those from the 05-09's?


'05s with 8k miles on them.  I need to get new rubber that fits the car.  My old TurboCoupe wheels rubbed up front.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

75bobcatv6

looks to be a nice little car. I like the 16" mustang Rims your rollin on there those from the 05-09's?

ADaughen

Quote from: 71hotrodpinto on August 13, 2009, 09:40:55 PM
well as a last resort see that your cleaning up and freshening up, just sawzall the shock and bolt off on either side of the shock eye. That should free things up. Just need some new shocks as well. Check ebay for deals all the time for shocks.
Uno come to think about it i had to replace my bolts once about 19 years ago. I hit some major pot holes.. or maybe i was 4wheeling,, cant remember but i bent the lower bolts. I went to the junk yard to get mine back then. But that was when there were 40 pintos to choose from. Not anymore!!


New shocks are in stock at AutoZone for ~$18.00 each.


The original photo in '99



Recently



I got rid of the pinstripe and door guards hence the white rustoleum to protect the metal.

IIRC, that hood was one of Pintony's when he came through.  I have a rear wagon hatch from him too.  I still need to smooth out the hood.  It had some really faded stripes on it.

Sadly the wheels don't fit the 11" Granada rotors.  The center hub is too small on the wheel, and the dust cap doesn't allow the center cap.  So I'm probably going to end up with a different wheel or $$ Wilwood brakes.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

71hotrodpinto

well as a last resort see that your cleaning up and freshening up, just sawzall the shock and bolt off on either side of the shock eye. That should free things up. Just need some new shocks as well. Check ebay for deals all the time for shocks.
Uno come to think about it i had to replace my bolts once about 19 years ago. I hit some major pot holes.. or maybe i was 4wheeling,, cant remember but i bent the lower bolts. I went to the junk yard to get mine back then. But that was when there were 40 pintos to choose from. Not anymore!!


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

75bobcatv6

get us some pics of what your workin with and what the car looks like =)

ADaughen

Quote from: 72pair on August 13, 2009, 04:56:28 PM
When reinstalling those suspension bolts or any bolts exposed to heat or the weather, neverseize is a wonderful thing.


Oh, I agree completely.  I have owned the car since '99 and I'm pretty sure the shocks have been on there since '95. 

I parked her in '00 due to college.  I finally got married, a house and got the car parked inside 3 years ago and NOW I have time to work on it again.  I'm really motivated to have her running under her own power for 2011 All Ford Nats.



I tried the heat thing, but I didn't shock it with water.  The threads are mauled on the one.  I haven't tried beating on the other.  I just left it alone.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

72pair

When reinstalling those suspension bolts or any bolts exposed to heat or the weather, neverseize is a wonderful thing.
72 sedan 2.0, c-4 beater now hot 2.0, 4-speed
72 sedan 2.3, t-5, 8" running project
80 Bobcat hatchback 2.3, 4-spd, 97K

Pinto1600

A thought here, try heating the bolt area to red hot and then hit it with water to "shock" the rusted bolt. A large drift pin and a hammer to push the bolt out. Good luck I've been there myself!
Happiness is..Driving a classic Pinto

ADaughen

Thanks HotRod.  I have a Grainger in town, I guess they are a bolt company, so I'll see what I can find. 

I definitely don't want a Grade 5, but I wasn't sure if it needed to be a harder bolt than a Grade 8.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

71hotrodpinto

AH HAA!!
Ive just done alot of reserch on the bolts that my 71 uses. Ive never measured the 74 and up bolts but because the shock is the same part# for all year pintos, id say that your safe with at least the shock bolt being the same.
Ready for it?
The lower shock bolt is 7/16 14 x 4.5 long. Id use a grade 8 for cheapest way out. HOWEVER if your looking for some permanant shine there is a place called www.Totalystainless.com They have them in polished stainless at stronger than grade 8 strength (150,000 psi) near 200,000 psi tensile strength. They are around $8 a piece without shipping. Theyd never rust in place again!
You dont want to skimp on strenght here. The shock and shock bolt are the only thing that supports the whole car in the event of a bottom out and it hits the bumpstop. If you use a grade 5 ( plain jane bolt) it will bend over time and then youll have to cut it out again. It might even break!
Good luck


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

ADaughen

Quote from: popbumper on August 12, 2009, 08:27:35 PM
Sorry, recently rebuilt my front end and replaced those bolts, but failed to write down what they were. Best wishes.

Chris


So they are readily out there?  Or did you need to find a bolt somewhere?
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

popbumper

Sorry, recently rebuilt my front end and replaced those bolts, but failed to write down what they were. Best wishes.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

hellfirejim

Before you cut it off, measure the length of the bolt.  Then when you get it out or what is left you can take it to a bolt store and find what you need to replace it.
jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


75bobcatv6

well that sucks. sorry to hear that. i can look at mine tommorow and give you an idea if thats ok? or over the weekend. lol Never know whats going on over here in my house from day to day.

ADaughen

I can't get the bolt out of the control arm/shock.  I'm going to have to cut both ends off from the inside of the control arm and punch the head and threads out.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

75bobcatv6

If you can cut it off above the bolt(if you are replacing the shock anyway) then take it to a Hardware store. they usually can help you locate another bolt that will fit the application. Copper state nut and bolt company are really good. i dont know where are you and if there is one where you live but they have been good to me in the past and pretty cheap too

ADaughen

So my shocks haven't been touched in 15+ years.  I went to clean up the front suspension and tried to get the lower shock bolt off and it is rusted SOLID.  I'll have to cut it off.  I've hammered on it enough that the threads are mangled.


Local parts store says "Dealer only or junkyard".  I highly doubt that the junkyard will have a better bolt.  :|

Dealership says the part # is 384375S.  "'No longer stocked."


Ideas?  Anyone have the size and grade of the bolt?  I can go pick two up at the bolt shop if needed.


Thanks,
Adam

'78 Cruisin' Wagon