Mini Classifieds

parts needed
Date: 02/20/2017 07:58 am
Built 2.0
Date: 10/07/2018 05:27 pm
1979 Pinto 3-door Runabout *PRICE REDUCED*

Date: 08/01/2023 06:53 pm
Mustang II V8 swap parts
Date: 03/26/2017 02:25 pm
1980 PINTO for sale
Date: 06/19/2017 02:51 pm
77 Cruising wagon Rear cargo light
Date: 10/02/2017 02:16 pm
convert to stick
Date: 05/19/2018 09:26 pm
76 Pinto Wagon
Date: 07/08/2020 05:44 pm
Interior Parts
Date: 08/07/2017 03:59 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,602
  • Total Topics: 16,271
  • Online today: 178
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 157
  • Total: 157
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

not sure where to put this but here goes

Started by 75bobcatv6, July 14, 2009, 03:53:13 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


blupinto

I'm fortunate that the tires my babies are blessed with are in decent shape. How much were you asking for the wheels and the caps you do have? Do the caps have the foal kicking on them?  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pinto Pro


75bobcatv6

I saw it already. Same rims I have. Ansen Style.

blupinto

I'm too computer illiterate to get that... sorry.  :P
One can never have too many Pintos!

75bobcatv6

I have 4 of those rims 2 With Caps. They are for Sale but Keep in mind the new Tread doesnt come with 2 of em. all Come as the rim no tires. (2 are on my bobcat atm) im trying to find a couple decent front rims I can toss on to sell the ones on the Front. I havent had the time to Order or pay for the ones I am getting. I did Order the 5 lug Front Rotors for the car tho.

75bobcatv6

Just wanted to look and the Coding to make a link here is [ url ] [ /ur l Minus the Spacing

blupinto

I don't know how to link but it was on craigslist LA... are you gonna snatch it out of my reach...?  >:( :devil: :laugh: The wheels are the ones that were optional on the Pintos and Mustang IIs.
One can never have too many Pintos!

75bobcatv6

The Ansen Style rims? or the Just plain Jane Slotted mags? Becky link the one your lookin at if you can

blupinto

That green one? Yeah, it is beautiful! The one I'm drooling on is a '75 Squire with (get this): Saddle Bronze Metallic (like Wildfire, my '74) and a V6 automatic. It also sports those mag wheels I love (the forged aluminum slotted ones with the center caps). Too bad they want like $1500 for it.  :-\
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

I'd give up my '72 AND one of my '79 Lincolns to get that gorgeous '78 Squire that's on eBay right now!!! :amazed:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

What's your Pinto? There's one in Antelope Valley that I'd actually forsake the Flying Avocado for! And that's saying a lot!
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pinto Pro

Hey, while you're at it, swing by and buy my Pinto from me...its in Hesperia too!!

blupinto

...or Margarita! Mmmmm! Drunk on Pinto happiness! lol. If the pic I saw was her, she looks off-white. What's with you and painted-over lime green Pinto anyway, Kim?  ::) Anyway, why not have TWO more Pintos? Hubby Bobby can have the one he found, and Margarita can be yours! Win Win situation!  ;D Lethergetit, lethergetit, lethergetit...JuJu coming at ya!  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

75bobcatv6

Thats great to hear Kim, you could call it the Lima bean =)

pintogirl

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on July 15, 2009, 08:50:20 PM
my wagon had Brown interior on white with wood grain outside. so it could be anything. look in the Jambs when you get the car. and im sure youll get it.

I know what color it was!!! Randy's Mom sent me more pics!!! It was lime green!!

Ok, White chocolate is out! LOL

I will know by sometime (hopefully early) if we will be getting it!!!!! I'm almost positively positive we will!! Hubby is already talking about driving almost 1000 miles for another Pinto!!!  ;D

I'll let you all know how things go as soon as I can tomorrow!!! Cross your fingers and send good juju!!!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

75bobcatv6

my wagon had Brown interior on white with wood grain outside. so it could be anything. look in the Jambs when you get the car. and im sure youll get it.

pintogirl

Ok, I called the guy back again today and asked the questions hubby wanted me to ask. Some of the answers were great, some not so great! I am now waiting on some more info, then I will be able to determine if we will get the car! I mean, if it was up to me alone, I would go for it, but I have to get that "ok" from the hubby! LOL I hope to know by tomorrow if things will work out!

On another note, I found out that the car was a squire and that the guy pulled off the wood panels. The car is actually in primer grey. Not white! Didn't think to ask him what color it was at one time. LOL I am going to guess it was brown, do to it haveing brown interior at one time! What's your guesses?? Don't call and ask either!! LOL
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

phils toys

Quote from: pintogirl on July 14, 2009, 11:28:50 PM
Yah, that would be nice!  He say's it is froze up though! I will see once we get the car home!!  ;D
use trans fluid  it will free it up in a very short time. I had one i used penetrating oil and reg oil  and it still would not budge  after 2 weeks ( i broke a braker bar on it)  some one sugested trany fluid  i cleaned out the oils that had been soaking and put the trany fluid in and  by the time  i got my tools out it was moving some and with in a half hr. i could turn it by hand. neved did end up using  the block but it is my garage and almost 2 yrs later i can still turn it by hand.
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

blupinto

LOL! You never know with me! Lethergetit, lethergetit, lethergetit...I'm still chanting the mantra... :)
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on July 14, 2009, 11:55:39 PM
JuJu coming right at you Kimmy! Lethergetit, lethergetit, lethergetit...  ;D

LOL I had to read Lethergetit a couple of times before I realized what it was! Thought you were speaking some weird Harry Potter language!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

As for making Hubby happy... whatever gets your wagon home... ;D :devil: :o ::) :D
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

JuJu coming right at you Kimmy! Lethergetit, lethergetit, lethergetit...  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on July 14, 2009, 11:46:22 PM
yes kim im putting in the word for you. I know your good at keeping yours if you say something you Generally do it

Awesome, thanks!! Yep, I have the money, just need to make hubby happy! LOL Well, happy with the info he wants! You guy's knew that is what I meant right? LOL :angel: :angel:
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

75bobcatv6

yes kim im putting in the word for you. I know your good at keeping yours if you say something you Generally do it

pintogirl

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on July 14, 2009, 11:39:02 PM
Glad to help. I left a message for Randy, Hope to hear from him tmr or something. (I hope he doesnt call while im at work lol. 15 Extra hours a week for a month or two to Get cash for that 76 Freds got. (its for my Gf but I guarantee ill be Driving it to work) Better mileage then the Sable. 17m/g City and thats most of what i do..

I hope you are asking him to make sure I get the car?!!! LOL  ;D ;D

Come on Becky, we need some good JuJu!!!! It worked for you, so let's hope it works for me!!  ;D ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

75bobcatv6

Glad to help. I left a message for Randy, Hope to hear from him tmr or something. (I hope he doesnt call while im at work lol. 15 Extra hours a week for a month or two to Get cash for that 76 Freds got. (its for my Gf but I guarantee ill be Driving it to work) Better mileage then the Sable. 17m/g City and thats most of what i do..

pintogirl

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on July 14, 2009, 11:30:38 PM
Penetrating oil in each Cyl over night should help that Spin free after some work =)

Thanks for the tip! I will try that!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

75bobcatv6

Penetrating oil in each Cyl over night should help that Spin free after some work =)

pintogirl

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on July 14, 2009, 11:25:52 PM
I hope you can get whats in it to work first. then you would be good to go ya know.

Yah, that would be nice!  He say's it is froze up though! I will see once we get the car home!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA