Mini Classifieds

Parting out 77 Bobcat Hatch
Date: 11/06/2017 04:16 pm
EARLY PINTO CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY
Date: 02/14/2019 06:27 pm
Wanted: automatic transmission shifter
Date: 07/21/2017 11:49 am
Wanted: Oil Breather F0ZZ6A485A "87-8 from 2.3L Turbo
Date: 08/06/2021 02:23 pm
Mini Mark IV one of 2 delux lg. sunroof models
Date: 06/18/2018 03:47 pm
71-71 speedo cable
Date: 07/31/2021 09:04 pm
74 Pinto Hub Caps & Trim Rings

Date: 02/18/2017 04:47 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
Clutch/brake pedal assemble
Date: 12/21/2017 11:26 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,895
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,581
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 1,293
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 1199
  • Total: 1199
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

D7-6038 motor mount

Started by Carolina Boy, May 03, 2009, 11:13:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

71pintoracer

The more I read this post the more confused I get!  :read: ??? Mounts and brackets and 289 frame stuff.... :P
Not that I really need it now, but it would be nice to know in case I V8 the cruiser in the future. There have been bunches of topics on this and it seems like they are all different. So yes, pinto project, if you could take pictures and give part # of what you use and how well it worked, you would be helping a good many members!
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

pinto project

Quote from: popbumper on June 10, 2009, 09:51:54 PM
OK, so the mount is available at Autozone under the number you listed. Cool. Then, all I have to do is find '66 Mustang 289 brackets, which bolt to the frame. If this is WRONG, say so. otherwsie I think I finally have it down.

Chris
no as you can see from the picture carolina posted is both pieces made together(the two holes on top the mount bolt to the motor and the bottom two holes slide over your frame)the only problem is the fit has some slack in it where you bolt the mount to the frame ,but with a couple of washers on each side it should shim up easy enough. but if you had the upper brackets that bolt to your small block mount the 2344 part number fits tighter but its all what you want the 2344 was $1399 and the part number carolina gave you was $9.99 iam going to try and use them. droping in v8 today with transmission starter and headers already bolted up. wish me good luck and ill let you guys know how its going.
i have a 78 pinto radiator and bucket seats and a driveshaft for sale if you need one.

pinto project

Quote from: Carolina Boy on June 10, 2009, 09:42:32 PM
Whoa there boys! The bracket is bolted to the frame.
The mount is bolted to the engine.
You lower the engine with mount attached, down over bracket and put bolt thru hole of the ears of the mount, thru bracket.
Picture is the mount
the 2344 i got from auto zone didnt look like this one what is the part number and price and where did you get it thanks the 2344 needs a bracket the bolts to the moter mount and the bracket bolts to the engine. any help id appreciate it carolina.
i have a 78 pinto radiator and bucket seats and a driveshaft for sale if you need one.

71hotrodpinto

Heres how i mounted my setup.
They are early (64?) Early Falcon mounts on some frame mounts that i got on ebay. The mounts were from a defunct company in the 70s.
They could be duped from some 1/8 plate steel, something to cut with and a welder. I can supply some dimensions if you want them.

One of the disadvanteges of these mounts is they can and will rip with big HP or TQ. There is no bolt thru design that will prevent the rubber from over stretching. However they have and can be modified with some work to include a couple of bolts and some nyloc nuts to act as an "engine strap".


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

pinto project

Quote from: Carolina Boy on May 04, 2009, 07:04:42 PM
There is a company called Anchor Industries that makes Motor mounts for autozone and other auto prt store. I just left an email with them about the availablity of A-2344, replacement for Ford's D7ZZ-6038B. I'll let you know if they respond.  :rolleye:

Do you or one of the other guys or girls have one or a close up picture I could use as a reference? Do you think it is the mounting ears that set it apart from other mounts.
ijust did some research on d722-6038b (2344 auto zone part#) two availiable 13.99 each have two order made for a mustang ii 1976 hope this is the right ones jegs told me the number also so did research on web.
i have a 78 pinto radiator and bucket seats and a driveshaft for sale if you need one.

popbumper

THANKS for clearing that up, it was painful for me  :laugh:. Seriously, since I have never looked at this setup, it was hard to visualize!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Carolina Boy

Use The 2.3 frame brackets. All you need is the mount. I bought a pair of mounts today and they do work.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

popbumper

OK, so the mount is available at Autozone under the number you listed. Cool. Then, all I have to do is find '66 Mustang 289 brackets, which bolt to the frame. If this is WRONG, say so. otherwsie I think I finally have it down.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Carolina Boy

Whoa there boys! The bracket is bolted to the frame.
The mount is bolted to the engine.
You lower the engine with mount attached, down over bracket and put bolt thru hole of the ears of the mount, thru bracket.
Picture is the mount
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

75bobcatv6

you can ge tthe brackets from any 289 you find in the junkyard then buy new mounts from autozone for that year vehicle i think, and be good to go.

popbumper

OK, so the brackets are what CB was talking about - I assume then you would also need mounts (isolators), which should be as easy to find. Thanks!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

75bobcatv6

The mount is the Isolator it bolts to the Engine and then to the frame Via the Bracket. So yes mounts are usually two parts.

popbumper

CB:

  Can you clear somthing up for me? These are mounts, right? What about BRACKETS? In all of the reading I have done, both "mounts" and "brackets" have been mentioned. Are these the SAME? Or, are there two different parts involved - a bracket that bolts to the frame, and a mount that interfaces the motor block to the bracket?

  Anyone else? I've never changed a motor out, so it's somewhat greek to me. Thanks!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Carolina Boy

This is the best news I had on this site. Just checked with Anchor Industries and they are available and also at Autozone for $12.88 each. I think I will go get some later this morning.

The part number for Anchor Inc. and Autozone is #2257 :amazed:
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Starsky and Hutch

All small block ford will work popbumper with that set up
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

popbumper

Nice info, thanks!! But these will fit 289 only, yes? Not 302? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I assume they are the same block, 302 has a bigger bore or longer stroke, whatever.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Carolina Boy

Now that thar is good news, Alot of the guys are going to be happy about this! Thanks and thanks especially from me ;D
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Starsky and Hutch

nope from what i have see,,they`ll bolt right in
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

Carolina Boy

Hey, We may have a winner!!! ;D These are bolt in huh? Any change on the frame bracket, like use two driver's side bracket or such? thanks for the info. Web search time!
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Starsky and Hutch

1966 ford mustang 289 mounts will bolt right in ,,,small blocks only though
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

Carolina Boy

Got a call from Anchor Industries and was informed that the Anchor replacement for D7ZZ-6038, will not be going back into production. There is not a demand great enough for it. >:(

I'm not giving up on my research! I will find something to work for us.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Carolina Boy

Got an email from Anchor Ind. and they said it was a discontinued universal part that would work on any 302 car from 1964 thru 85. The email had a phone number. I caled and spoke to a guy about the mount. He told me there was no such replacement part for the D7ZZ-6038b and that I had the wrong number. I tried to explain I got the number from their website and was hung up on! :nocool: I cooled off and called back and asked for a supervisior, CLICK, hung up again. :mad: I swear I heard his zits popping. OK now I'm really *&#@ed off. I pulled the site back up and found a VPs name and grabbed my cell phone (different number) and called again. I ask for this VP. I told zit face, "put me thru now and never put me on hold again!!". Ring, hello, may I help you. I explained the problem and he said the part was discontinued due to lack of interest. I told him about us and MustangII club and he will see about getting them back into production, and he will let me know when they are available for purchase. He seem like a pretty nice guy.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Carolina Boy

There is a company called Anchor Industries that makes Motor mounts for autozone and other auto prt store. I just left an email with them about the availablity of A-2344, replacement for Ford's D7ZZ-6038B. I'll let you know if they respond.  :rolleye:

Do you or one of the other guys or girls have one or a close up picture I could use as a reference? Do you think it is the mounting ears that set it apart from other mounts.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

dave1987

Got a wee bit busy driving around....sorry.

They could only find that the 6038 mounts were only every used on the Mustang II from 76 out, no other cars used them. :(
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Carolina Boy

Now don't go out of your way, Take your time. 8)
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

dave1987

Tell you what....I'll go down to my local Ford dealership today (they've been wanting to see the Pinto with the valance on anyway), and I will have them look up the part number and have them tell me what other vehicles it was used on. I'll get back to you after 9 AM mountain time (an hour and 20 minutes from now).
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Carolina Boy

Is there any other mount that you can use for the 74-78 V8 swap? Was it used in any other car and thru what year? I really don't want to use solid mounts or engine plates.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.