Mini Classifieds

hubcaps

Date: 10/31/2018 12:04 pm
A.c. alternator hrackets
Date: 09/03/2017 12:11 pm
Rare parts for sale
Date: 09/10/2018 08:38 am
1980 Ford Pinto For Sale

Date: 07/01/2018 03:21 pm
1971 Pinto Do It Yourself Manual

Date: 03/06/2017 01:19 am
Want seals for Pinto wagon "flip out" windows
Date: 08/08/2017 01:44 pm
'80 Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/01/2018 05:20 pm
Early Rare Small window hatch
Date: 08/16/2017 08:26 am
Wagon hatch letters
Date: 12/31/2023 04:24 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 656
  • Online ever: 1,722 (Yesterday at 02:19:48 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 584
  • Total: 584
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

78 Crusing wagon restore

Started by flash041, February 26, 2009, 04:22:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

flash041

Four stright hours of work and the body and doors are primed! Now I have to wait three hours to sand the jams so I can paint them and mount the doors , hood , hatch, and panels.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Two part ,an Etch primer , then a filler primer.Yea I am getting excited too!!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

popbumper

Now that I have wiped the drool off.....

...WOW....

....I can't WAIT to be where you are in your process. You are gonna have one awesome vehicle. Nice, nice work. A sealing primer, I assume?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

flash041

Pics
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Let the painting begin! I started the painting process tonight.I etch and fill primed the side panels , hood and hatch.Tomorrow I will do the doors and the rest of the car.I am doing the priming now in my garage and will do the color in the spray booth when its done.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Helped a friend last night get  a spray booth out of storage he bought five years ago. I will help him put it up , and I can use it to paint my car in. Hopefully it will be put up by next week.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

It was nice to meet you too.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

75bobcatv6

Looking good man. Was nice to meet you when you were here.

flash041

Got my primer and paint,ordered a new paint gun set, and a new carpet.Hope to be painting within a few weeks!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Finished spot welding the panel in. Filled in the seames and then some sanding.I drenched the inside with undercoating till it ran out the drain hole and small cracks so it in all sealed up.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Got the panel part way on tonight.On the top I used the punch/flange tool to make a recessed edge for the new metal.I decided to glue the top like I did the door edge to lessen warpage.Tonight I will let the adhiseve cure and tomorrow weld the rest of the panel in.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Ok spent a couple of hours tonight working on the rr quarter.First I cut off the patch I did a few weeks ago.Then I removed the inner fender and extra metal from the panel I got from Fred.I did a first fit and already feel much better!The patch I did was just not quite right.Afew more hours of grinding fitting , and welding and it will be done!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Got the last piece of sheetmetal today from Fred Morgan , thanks Fred.Its a rr quarter section.I made one , but was not entirely happy how it came out. I will cut that one one and fit this southwest sheetmetal in. This will be much better!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

got the doors done today!Now just waiting for the sheetmetal from Fred (not here yet ,coming pony express?lol) then put that in and do final prep for primer!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Got an estimite for doing the stripes.Betweeen 700 and 800 to have the stripes made and put on.I have a little while to decide.It would save me a lot of time masking  and painting each color.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

popbumper

Fantastic work and progress. Congrats on a fine job, keep it up! I love the seeing major projects come together!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dave1987

The wagon is coming along AMAZINGLY!

I can't wait until brownie has a freshly rebuilt engine in her and all nice and drivable as a daily driver so I can do this to my 78!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

flash041

Now putting on the lower door skin panels.Rember I cut off the bottom three inches of the outerskin, and repaired the inner flange that was rusted.I bought universal door skin patch panels.Thet were 60 inches long x 5 inches wide , with the bottom edge already folded.On the existing skin i used a air flange tool to make a crimp in the panel so the two panels would fit flush and require miniumun body filler.Like the quarter wheel lip I used structrial adhiseve.I then put in a few spot welds at the crimped jount for good measure.Before folding the edge tight I filled the viod with seam sealer.Then a little fill and sanding and its done!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

the rest of the hinge pics
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Today I replaced the door hinge pins and bushings.I figure since the doors are off it a good time to do it.I used Lawson Products part numbers 29823 door hinge pins and 96096 door hinge bushings.They are listed for Ford trucks 1985 and up.First I groung off the peened ends of the old pins.I drove them out and then drove the old bushings out. The new bushings have a larger outside diameter that the old ones. You can see the old and new side by side . It took a 15/32 drill to make them fit.I figure it a good thing to have the bushings be a little bigger if your hinge metal is a little egged out.I then drove the new bushings in, they are nice and snug!Then drove the pins in.For a little added insurance I put one spot welded on each pin to ensure that wont back out.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

Cookieboystoys

keep up the good work... looking forward to seeing the result  ;D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

flash041

more welding , grinding, filling sanding...Will take a break from it next week then get back at it.My goal is still to have all metal work done by the end of April , paint in May.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

78squirewagon

LOOKING GREAT!!!  Now hurry up so I can get the red coupe out to you to work on next  ;D
1978 Squire wagon,red, 69000 and counting original miles

1978 Hatchback, red (built four days after  the Squire)

flash041

Today cut the bottom three inches of the outer door skin off on both doors. I was going to just glue a new piece on , but decided to do it right and get rid of any rust in the bottom lip.As you can see the inside of the door skin is mostly rust free except on the lip.The out side also had pretty bad scabs up to three inches up , but not comming from the inside.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Got the doors off today.The bottom on one was worse that I thought.Nothing that a little new metal wont solve.It was a warm and sunny day so I backed it out to clean the garage a bit.My wife cam home and said it looked sad.Have to remove the paint from the jambs, then all the paint is off!Then finish sand and fill, panel by panel.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

Paint is more that 3/4 off!Tonight I decided to remove the paint from the right rear quarter.I wanted to replace it , but now I am going to repair it.It has two holes in the bottom and some rust scabs.I ground and blasted the scabs, and they are not all the way through. Also the wheel lip is all intact .So I will weld in new metal in the holes and seal where the scabs were.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

More grinding and sanding . ill be gald when this step is over! It is getting closer to paint each day,
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

flash041

I used tracing paper and laid it on the car and pencil traces the stripes.I also pencil shaded the body lines door and hood gaps to know where they go.I  have just six sheets of paper.I traced all the lines together so I have all the size and spacing of the stripes.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

Starsky and Hutch

Flash on your templates you make.. record where the seams in the vinyl go as well!!  Put a pencil line through the template where the seam joints are and write on the template lap joint here !If you don`t have any seams in your stripe`s forget this part ... Cut capital letter T`s from bristle board  and line the top of the T with the moldings and mark where the stripe`s original placement was with a pen on the T,,,,make a pile of them to go around the hood and back and one side,,,And number them 1 through 25  I put one T every foot on my car..Then when the stripe`s are applied they will know exactly where they went ....This stopped all the guessing looking at  old  photo`s as a reference P.S record where the first T was placed and keep a record of the measurements between each T this will help when you put the T`s back in place to line the stripes too......\  Some of your T`s will have long bottoms,,,where the stripe`s dip down low on the wagon `s body 
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

flash041

Yesterday I spent five hours, mostly griding paint off and removing the front bumper,front inner fenders, grille and headlight buckets.At the end I finished sanded a small section.It came out nice and smooth!! Today I will do my last trace of the stripes,on the front fenders. Then its off with the stripes!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible