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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

My new Pinto, The Sequel

Started by Carolina Boy, February 17, 2009, 09:09:03 PM

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dga57

Boy... if it weren't for bad luck, you'd have no luck at all!  Glad to hear that Bandit escaped unscathed (and unscratched, for that matter)!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Carolina Boy

If you said on my car, you'd be wrong. It fell on the shelter, ripping the fabric and bending over 50% of the framing. >:( >:( I will have the thank about another cover. Thank God poor Bandit :angel: hadn't been moved inside yet.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Carolina Boy

Shelter went up last Monday. Planned to put car in this weekend. Came home on Wednesday to find a tree had fallen in the yard. Guess where!!!! ???
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

dga57

HAPPY LABOR DAY WEEKEND to you too, Robert!!!  As for me, I'm celebrating Labor Day by working ::) :-\ :(   Can't complain, though, at least I have a job!  Enjoy your three days off :drunk:!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Carolina Boy

HAPPY LABOR DAY WEEKEND!!! Fire up the BBQ, opps, that's the grill if ya ain't down South! :devil: :drunk:
The slab is poured and cured. I had hoped to pit up the shelter back on 24th or 25th. Work has made me put a hold on that. Now this weekend (3 Days) is mine, ALL MINE!
From earlier post, update is, no I didn't trade the 5.0/T5 for the 3.8 SC. Did sell the 5.0 for money to work on truck (must have truck). Lucky enough, a freind told me of a complete 289 w/ manual 3 speed for $50. Of course I went and got it. It came out if a 67 Fairlane, spins freely. Could someone tell me the code of the engine if I post it? After putting up the shelter, I will tear down the 289, dip it, machine (if needed) and rebuild.
Once I get Bandit in the shelter on that hard flat floor, I will start again on deconstruction, all the way to a shell. I am going to blast it inside and out to bare metal.
More updates and pictures soon!  :drunk:
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

hellfirejim

congrats on the new job and freedom.  BTW: i too have parts in the kitchen and even in the corner of the living room.  i eat what i want and in the refrigeratior there is nothing in there that i don't want.
I to have no garage which mostly hurts in the winter when i put it up on jackstands and cover.  i know i would get a lot further but such is life.

enjoy what you have and be greatful it is turning out well for you.  Keepp the pictures goin.

jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


dga57

There for a moment I thought maybe you'd had too much of that funny lemonade of yours! :lol:

Well... I'm jealous now.  If I had a place to get my Pinto indoors, I might actually accomplish something with it.  Had a kid stop by one day last week and wanted to know if I would sell it.  To tell you the truth, I was tempted - the idea being that I could maybe find one that needs less attention, since I'm having trouble finding time to invest in it.  But, it's mechanically sounds and there's really nothing all that bad wrong with it cosmetically, so I said no.  I'm going to see this through to the end, regardless of when that happens to be!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Carolina Boy

Been thanking about finding a Pantera transaxle and making Bandit a rear engine Pinto :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :devil:
Had yall going there, huh?
Next week is all mine. Bandit, Stanley and Jack needs daddy. My buddy will be here Friday to oversee the pad pour. 3 days of curing and the Shelterlogic shelter will be installed. :amazed: Tuesday will be the last time rain and stuff will get on Bandit till she's done!!!!
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Carolina Boy

You would, Blu :evil:
I have made a difficult decision on the rear end. I aquired another set of axles (machine shop bought them due to their screw up). I stayed with the 4 lug axles and used my 14" Fairmont rims. I resealed and put new bearings in the rearend and installed it. I had 205/70/14 mounted on the front and 215/70/14 on the rear. I painted the rims highgloss black, used chromed nuts and trim ring. Looks pertty sharpe, if I do say so myself.
I just had to do SOME work on Bandit, as I had to relax because of my work hours. Felt good, too! I have been talking to a buddy of mine about a swap, my 5.0/T5 for his 3.8SC/ T5. Just might take him up on it.
Bandit's body is next to get some paint in the next couple of weeks.
I should have some more days off soon and will try to post some new pictures.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

blupinto

Well at least you have skivvies on. You could be, er, hanging out  :embarrassed: ::) :devil: in the raw...  oooh... did I say that?  :angel: :devil: ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

Carolina Boy

Disco, It has been a blast here! Cook my own food, what I want and how much! Watch TV on any channel, with a Jack and Coke, in my skiveys. Opps, should not have said that, Becky and Kimmy might read this.
Work has been hard and long but the money is good and I can buy parts when I wontto!
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

discolives78

Hey CB!

Congrats on the new job! Like a lot of other guys, I considered my divorce a blessing (may she find the money {I mean happiness} she was looking for) :lol:

I think you meant 'stakes' instead of 'steaks', right? I got hungry reading this!  :laugh:

Best wishes for success!
Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Carolina Boy

Grumpy, Check out the Fayetteville, NC craigslist. There is a 74 Pinto for $1000.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Starsky and Hutch

quarter windows come out by lifting rubber in bottom front corner and push outward,,, and remove trim screw if you have mouldings on them
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

r4pinto

Becky, you are right. That car looks like it needs quite a bit, especially since they cracked the windshield by washing the car. Yeah right. That is the biggest bunch of baloney I have ever heard.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

blupinto

Hahahahaha! Mmmmm..... steaks....lol.

Grumpy, I know there's a forlorn little green wagon just begging for a loving home somewhere in SC. It was on ebay going for $650 or something like that. I don't think it sold. Poor thing. It needs LOTS of TLC. Hope this helps.  :)
One can never have too many Pintos!

71pintoracer

Quote from: Carolina Boy on June 20, 2009, 11:49:28 PM
!
If not too hot, may lay out the steaks for the concrete slab and start grond preps for a pour next weekend.
Had to re-read that one CB, when you said lay out steaks I was gettin' ready to head on down!! :lol:
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Grumpy

Carolina Boy

Sorry to hear about your other half, though you may not be :)

I was married, too, for 15 years, it was 13 of the happiest years of my life. But I paid my debt to society and reproduced myself, so it wasn't all bad.

I'm located in the Mountains of NC(right on the edge of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park). I noticed your moniker, are you in NC or SC?

By the way, this would be a great place to hold a get together, Gatlingburg is just over the mountain, Cherokee is just down the road and there is a scenic train here in Bryson City. Lots of motel space and camping grounds and some of the prettiest scenery on God's green Earth(and great driving roads, too). Y'all come!!!

Good luck on your new job. They're running pretty scarce these days.

Do you(or anyone else) know of any 71-73 or 79-80 wagons for sale(somewhere fairly close)? Does anyone? I've got a couple of nice engines needing a good home and I have always wanted a Pinto Ranchero. Don't really want to start modding my 79, it just wouldn't feel right.

Grumpy 8)
79 Pinto Hatch, Yellow w/White Pony stripes, Pony wheels, 6650 miles

Carolina Boy

As yall has herd, I are workin' agin!!!!!! Same company, more money, but some travel. Monday was my first day back and as of 7pm today, I had already logged 69 hrs. I am off today (Sunday) and plan to do some work on poor little neglected Bandit. Going to try to cut out that floorboard to ready it for the panel Pintogirl sent me. Film at 11, stay tuned!
If not too hot, may lay out the steaks for the concrete slab and start grond preps for a pour next weekend.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Carolina Boy

Been pert quite here. Been a bacherlor for a while now. Did get a new job. First day was today. This weekend is cleanup day out side. I have got to either sale all these parts or find somewhere to put them. At least ain't got no wife now to say" you are'nt bringing that in this house!" Sure wish i could sell it all so I can get back on Bandit. Wish I knew someone like Fred that could take it all off my hands in one fell swoop.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

dga57

Gee, when it rains, it pours!

Good luck in the  :search: for employment.

I was going to say I'm sorry about your marriage falling apart, but then I thought back to MY first marriage and realized congratulations might be more in order... I don't know :-\.  Change is difficult regardless of the circumstances and/or how you feel about them, so here's wishing you the very best as you make some adjustments in your life :drunk:.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Carolina Boy

I just knew there was something I liked about him!!! 8)

CB
(Robert, Rob, Bob, Bobby)
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

pintogirl

Sounds like things are coming around!!

Oh, and to answer your question you emailed me about and I forgot to answer when I replied, hubby's name is Bobby!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

smallfryefarm

Wondering where you were yesterday. Good to see the project is still goin for you. Sorry about the other half.... i think....   Hope things turn out which every way you want it to. Sounds like the carolinas might be in trouble though.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

Carolina Boy

 :tgif: Well let me update everbody. Bandit's looking good on the out side. She is straight and fully primmered. With help for a bunch of guys and gals from here, got parts needed to keep the project going.
   There has been one or two setback but they have been settled. I lost my job and the other half of the family. I have been offer another job and will start in a week. As far as her coming back, that is no, no chance. She's back in NY for good, case closed. :showback: Free again, free again!! :lol: Heck she didn't like Bandit anyways. :nocool: No more marriage for me :drunk:, I'll just be a playboy from now on. :devil:(HINT HINT)
   I recieved window trim (78texpony) :drunk: pedal pads and hood bumpers (Fred) :drunk: and a floorboard panel (pintogirl and hubby) :angel: :angel: :drunk:. I have been stripping the interior between rain storms and job interviews. Plan on taking it down to a rolling shell. I will then have it blasted and repainted then carefully reconstrusted 90% stock with the other 10% being the 302/T5 swap. I will be able to get back to it when I am settled in the new job.


2011 or bust
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

beegle55

Quote from: dholvrsn on May 31, 2009, 09:29:13 PM
"Pinto brain...." !  :laugh: :P ;D

OH! I forgot to add for a lack of a better term...  :showback:

    -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

dholvrsn

Quote from: beegle55 on May 31, 2009, 08:40:24 PM
Pinto brain himself, Lee Iacocca,
    -beegle55

"Pinto brain...." !  :laugh: :P ;D
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

beegle55

Quote from: r4pinto on May 24, 2009, 09:47:09 PM
Nah, haven't tried that.. Might be because I don't have a cherry picker either. To pull the old engine out of my Omni GLH Turbo I had to strip it to the bear block, and just let the old engine fall out of the engine compartment lol.

How did that run? My dad was a Dodge mechanic for almost 30 years and talked about how he wanted a Dodge with a turbo four-cyl in it like the Omni/Horizon GLH or a Shelby Charger (he had one that he loved.) He wanted to swap it into a Dodge Rampage that was my great grandpas that we inherited from him... but it and that plan is long down the road; its just interesting to hear word of an old Omni Goes Like Hell, created by none other than the Pinto brain himself, Lee Iacocca, who thanks to the dumbasses in the auto industry today, is losing part of his retirement  >:( That really burns my @$$. Not to hijack the thread. Sorry  ;D

    -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

Carolina Boy

Thanks IFFY, I need all the luck I can beg, borrow or steal :devil:

Bobcat, In the next couple of years I plan on getting a 3 car garage w/ attached house. :drunk:
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

75bobcatv6

Once my girl is out of College and working were Buying a house with a 2 car garage, the garage will only fit one car, Im having a lift installed =) Just enough to get me 3 feet off the ground.