Mini Classifieds

(3) 1980 Ford Pinto Station Wagon Projects

Date: 03/15/2023 02:16 pm
Rear Bumper
Date: 07/26/2021 01:08 pm
New front rotors and everything for '74-'80
Date: 08/02/2019 04:18 pm
V8 rear end
Date: 04/12/2018 10:57 am
WANTED: 1979 Bumper End Caps - Front and Rear
Date: 02/16/2019 10:46 am
71-73 Front Kick Panels
Date: 04/25/2021 07:24 pm
KYB shocks

Date: 02/08/2017 07:09 pm
73 Caliper Retaining Key
Date: 10/28/2021 07:49 am
Pinto Watch

Date: 06/22/2019 07:12 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 488
  • Total: 488
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

I found some red seats for you blupinto!!!! LOL (The Brown Ghost) ????

Started by pintogirl, February 01, 2009, 08:52:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

billnall

The red seats look like Ford Tempo or Mercury Topaz seats, don't know what year.
Ford Parts Man
Bill

pintogirl

Well I defenitly don't have Pinto floor mats!! LOL


The exhaust pipe was loose so we put the car on the lift and I found out that the seats are most defenitly not Pinto! They drilled holes in the floor board and used big washers to hold the back of the seat down. Now I will have holes to patch once I get the Pinto seats in it!

Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

larjohnson

WOW!!!! A great Pinto find.  I think if I brought another Pinto home, my wife would probably shoot me.... :lol: What's amazing is, the seats I purchased at a local salvage yard for the 1971 Pinto I bought in Washington State, were an exact match to your interior.  The Pinto had been stored outside, but all the windows were up and intact.  The bonus was the seats had a seat cover put on them both to protect them, and the passenger seat looked nearly new.  The driver's seat just had a few tears, nothing major.  But alas, they have been given new life for my new Pinto.  I do understand what it's like to have seats in the Pinto, which don't go along with the interior.  I know someday, you'll take care of that.  The upholstery shop I used, recovered my seats with the original Ford Pinto fabric, and it cost me $200.00 each, which included the fabric.  I thought this was reasonable, hope you can find someone also.  Good Luck, and I'm jealous, I think you got a great buy.  Larry :police:
Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

dave1987

Pinto floor mats have a funny shape to them, and say "Pinto" on them. I'd like a set myself, but when they are on ebay they range from $80 to $120 for a pair! Too costly for me.

Here are some pix of the ones I've seen on ebay.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 01, 2009, 09:52:44 PM
Pull the windows out!? The Pinto I'm getting the headliner out of doesn't look like it'll involve windows. The Haynes Pinto book sats nothing about headliners so you must know something I don't know ('fess up!)

     Eau de Tomcat... who can't recognize that fragrance? lol.


       I love that fold-down seat!

     Is that a Pinto floor mat on the drivers side?

No I don't know much about headliners, just looks like it is tucked up under the rubber of the windows. I think you may be able to carefully pull it out, if not you could take a razor knife, and carefully cut the rubber??

I couldn't tell you if it is a Pinto floor mat or not! LOL It is just a big black tore up rubber mat. No markings on it, not sure if they had markings on them or not?? They are pretty much toast too, so I will be getting new mats!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Pull the windows out!? The Pinto I'm getting the headliner out of doesn't look like it'll involve windows. The Haynes Pinto book sats nothing about headliners so you must know something I don't know ('fess up!)

     Eau de Tomcat... who can't recognize that fragrance? lol.


       I love that fold-down seat!

     Is that a Pinto floor mat on the drivers side?
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 01, 2009, 09:31:25 PM
When I first spied the title of this thread I thought, "Brown Ghost? But the Baby isn't dead yet!" lol. THen I read on. At best mine is the Bronze Ghost with a ghost of a chance to reclaim her former glory (actually it's not that dramatic!).

     After I saw that modern radio in the "new" car I figured the bezel was needed more there than in mine. Except for the headliner the interior doesn't look half bad.

The interior isn't to bad. The front floorboard carpet is toast. I can see the insulation. I'm either going to just put a better floor mat over it, or cut the bad stuff out and then put rubber mats down. I'm going to focus on "driving" this pinto!! So I am in no hurry to fix things that can actually be covered up for now. In fact, I'm trying to figure out a way to cover up the headliner padding. I don't want to put a new headliner in it till I get another Pinto drivable. From the looks of it, I will have to pull all the windows out to replace the headliner!! I think I will find some material and sew it into the old headliner. It will look funny, but atleast it will save the padding!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 01, 2009, 09:22:24 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: You are killing me!!! Who ever heard of a bronze Pinto with red and saddle interior!?! OMG you are a scream! MY SEATS ARE FINE!!! LOL! Brown is good! LOL!!


       Do you have enough trunk models now?! THere's one near here in Escondido you don't have yet! LOL!!! Congratulations on your latest treasure!!! How can you be so lucky!?  ;D


LOL I knew you would get a kick out of those red seats!!!!!! LOL

I'm going to pull the brown one's that I just put in the "pinto in a box" box, LOL, and start gutting them down to the springs. Then I will check to see how much it will cost to have them re upholstered. They smell really bad of cat pee. They had been in that field with the broken windshield for a long time!! A cat's play house!!! LOL  For now I will buy seat covers to cover the red ones!! LOL

Well, atleast this one is a 72!!! LOL The rest are all 71's!!! Yah, I read about that one near you. I think you should go get it!!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

When I first spied the title of this thread I thought, "Brown Ghost? But the Baby isn't dead yet!" lol. THen I read on. At best mine is the Bronze Ghost with a ghost of a chance to reclaim her former glory (actually it's not that dramatic!).

     After I saw that modern radio in the "new" car I figured the bezel was needed more there than in mine. Except for the headliner the interior doesn't look half bad.
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

 :lol: :lol: :lol: You are killing me!!! Who ever heard of a bronze Pinto with red and saddle interior!?! OMG you are a scream! MY SEATS ARE FINE!!! LOL! Brown is good! LOL!!


       Do you have enough trunk models now?! THere's one near here in Escondido you don't have yet! LOL!!! Congratulations on your latest treasure!!! How can you be so lucky!?  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

I'd love to have another pinto, myself. I would want a 73 or earlier though, something with the small bumpers and a shorter profile. I never realized how much taller the 78 was compared to earlier models until I met the driver of an orange 72 runabout last month and we pulled our cars next to each other. Makes the 78 look like the 72's muscle brother. lol
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintogirl

Quote from: dave1987 on February 01, 2009, 09:00:44 PM
Wow. Great find! You can never have enough Pintos, can you? :)

Notice the wood grain dash panel in that car, as it is cut around the gauges. That is what I plan on doing with the panel you sent me, but it would fill in between the gauges as well. I'll be able to use my miniature Pinto dash emblem though! :D

I bet you are wishing you kept that pane now, huh? I feel bad now. :(

Don't feel bad, I already have one!!! It came from the yellow pinto!

This is it for me and Pintos, I think 4 total is good. LOL Well, some guy told us about 3 more that he found somewhat close by! LOL Have to go check those out!!!! LOL
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

dave1987

Wow. Great find! You can never have enough Pintos, can you? :)

Notice the wood grain dash panel in that car, as it is cut around the gauges. That is what I plan on doing with the panel you sent me, but it would fill in between the gauges as well. I'll be able to use my miniature Pinto dash emblem though! :D

I bet you are wishing you kept that pane now, huh? I feel bad now. :(
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintogirl

After reading several posts about sleepers, and how a wagon would be the best for one, do to it's longer wheel base, I did a CL search last night!!! I wanted to see if the guy I had bought the yellow and grey car from, still had his wagon. No luck, didn't see it on CL anymore. BUT, I did find another Pinto trunk model on there!!! It was just above Chico in a small town called Stirling City. The ad said it ran good, drove good, stopped good and turned good. Not exactly in those words lol. It also said it was currently on a non op. The pictures of it didn't look to bad, so I started asking hubby about it. He of course said no way! LOL Well, this morning I started talking to him again about it. Told him that it would be perfect because it runs and drives well, and it's an automatic with a 2.0!!!! I said that I could actually drive this one and not have to wait for him to look at the Green Machine!! Well after a bit of talking he told me to call the guy and make sure it was still available. IT WAS!!!!

We had to call a retired driver to see if he would cover for hubby and had to call the boss to see if she would answer the phone for him. They all agreed and so we were off at about 11.30am!!! We arrived at about 1.20pm. The guy had me start the car up and it started and ran. He said it was cold blooded band ran much better once it warmed up! We let it idle for a while and went about looking for any thing wrong with the body and engine and such. It sat there and ran the whole time, never complaining at all.

First thing I noticed right off the bat, that I didn't like, was they had cut 3 holes in the dash above the glove box. They had a water temp gauge and an oil gauge in to holes and the 3rd was empty, just a hole! I did notice that another wood grain dash plate would cover the holes up so I kinda look passed it, but did mention that I didn't like that they cut holes in it. They also had put some external back up lights on it, with a toggle switch under the dash to make them work. It looks hokey!! Under the hood it is missing the smog stuff, not really a big deal for me as you all know I have the yellow car as a donor, which was a 2.0 automatic too. The interior was pretty much all there, it has the "luxury" package interior!!! Just like the yellow car had!!! So I would have misc. interior pieces for it!!! They also added (atleast I think this is an ad on) door pull handles up on the metal part of the door. I didn't care to much for that either. The passenger door is a replacement door. I can tell because it is black on the inside when all the rest of the car is brown on the inside.

Oh, heck, enough with the talking!! Here are some pics!!



It needs a new headliner,


The original color


Check it out, it has the fold down rear seat like my Green Machine has!!!!


And finally, here are the red seats I found for you Becky!!!!! LOL


Engine,


The outside






As you can see the one side is pretty well all white, but the other side has primer. One side has all of the side molding (door ding thingy), the other side doesn't. It is missing some teeth in the grille too!! There wasn't much rust, but it does seem to have a leak somewhere because the floor boards are wet!

The guy wanted $600 firm or trade. Did we buy it for that??? No. We gave him $500.!!!!!! LOL I'm going to DMV Thurs. to transfer it in my name!!!!!!

The only thing I can say that is wrong is, I took it for a test drive and it made a banging noise. We looked at the under neath and it seems that the muffler is getting hit by the driveline!! It is going in the garage tomorrow night to get that fixed. Then I just need to make sure I wont get wet while driving it and I will have a daily driver!!!! Right now I don't care that the floor board it wet, as long as the leak doesn't leak on me!!! LOL Most likely I wont drive it in the rain anyway, but if I get caught in it, I don't want to get a shower!!! LOL

I have to apoligize to Robert, sorry man, I didn't get out to the wrecking yard today!! Something better came up!! ;D I will go out hopefully Thurs. after DMV, weather permitting1!

Also, Becky, I hate to say this but the brown bezel now has a new home in the brown ghost!!! If you want the red one out at the wrecking yard, you get first dibs, if not it will go to Robert!!!

Oh, almost forgot. I am naming this one the brown ghost because it is actually a brown car that has been painted white. It will eventually be brown again, one day way down the road!!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA