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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

The Baby (aka the copper queen)

Started by blupinto, November 28, 2008, 09:41:14 PM

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blupinto

I was tempted to ask Jerry to take a picture of me elbow deep in my car's vitals with my digi camera but blah me with non-flattering clothes plus a bunch of old car grease smeared all over me would've broke said camera! lol.


     I didn't mean to go so overboard with my exuberance. I needed this. I've been so depressed because my paycheck is drastically reduced (hello chronicallyoverdrawnville!) and my on-the-job injury is not getting better (more reduction in pay- only 2/3 of my normal paycheck.). So any small victory for me I'll embrace with all my might.  And when it concerns that gorgeous little Saddle Bronze Metallic dreammobile in my driveway it's so much more so.  
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I"m so excited for you Becky!!!!! That is just to awesome, what a great neighbor you have!!!!! I know your going to love your Maiden Voyage!!!! Hey, do me a favor and go to your local "beanery" for me!!!!!  ;D

Have fun tomorrow!!!!!

Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

 Thank you dga57. You flatter me!

:drunk: :devil: ;D :D :lol: :tgif: :laugh: :amazed:
I don't think I can keep it in... OOOOH I CAN'T!!!! WHOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My wonderful reliable most-favoritist neighbor mechanic went above and beyond the call of duty and not only put the timing belt on and timed everything but he put on the water pump (he offered. what am I gonna say no?! lol.) and took off that dratted harmonic balancer (crankshaft) pulley. I learned all about the pulley puller and how to use it. Here's hoping I'll never need to use one! lol.  :drunk:

       After he got the TB on and everything in sync he had me start it. OMG!!!! IT SOUNDS LIKE A PINTO!!!!! Not the rattletrap it sounded like before.

       So here's the exciting part. He put that stuff above on and I replaced everything I took off (radiator and hoses, cooling lines, fan and shroud, new spark plug wires). I hadn't had a bite to eat from 7:30 am til 7:00 pm. I was on my feet all day watching Jerry and keeping him company and when I wasn't I was busy soaking my sweatpants in atf that escaped the cooling line hose loop he created and knocking greasy dirt chunks (the name of my new band! lol.) into my eyes while underneath the Baby. lol.

Oh. the exciting part... I feel like it's Christmas. As exhausted as I am I don't know if I can sleep, for tomorrow I will top off her missing fluids and TAKE HER ON A MAIDEN VOYAGE!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!  :drunk: ;D :lol: :surprised: :amazed: :afro:
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Yikes :o
What happened... did your hours get cut ???
By the way, not all of us are mechanics.  You are already tackling jobs I wouldn't even dream of doing.  On the other hand, I do quite well with bodywork, paint and interior work.  That's why it was so important to me to locate a good-running Pinto, regardless of its cosmetic issues. 
Best of luck!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

I don't mean to be dumb (but I know I am!) but how do you know when to replace ball joints? As for loss of sleep, I hear you. I'm kept up nights lately because I only got half a paycheck and my mortgage is approx. 1 1/4 paychecks per month. This just happened early this week. Sorry. I got off topic.
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

Out of all the repairs you will encounter, pray that you will never have to do your ball joints yourself. I am in the process of doing them and it will end up being a three day thing. Well worth it in the end, just very fustrating and time consuming. I haven't slept in 21 hours and I work in two. ugh.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 19, 2009, 08:50:53 PM
You silly goose!  :lol:

So have you convinced Hubby to trailer The Ghost down this way? (say yes, say yes)

I'm still working on it!!!! LOL  Keep your fingers crossed!!!!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

You silly goose!  :lol:

So have you convinced Hubby to trailer The Ghost down this way? (say yes, say yes)
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 19, 2009, 05:30:10 PM
I have decided to have my next door neighbor/mechanic pull the harmonic balancer (crankshaft) pulley because I cannot do it myself. He will also replace the timing belt and put the timing right. I don't know what I'm looking for, and the books I have are really no help. Once that's done I will personally replace the water pump, put the fan and radiator all back on myself (I can do that! lol.) so I hope folks out here in Pintoland won't think less of me because I cannot do it all. But that's why I sometimes pathetically plead for help, like on the pulley. I just want the BAby to be able to safely make the trip to Buena Park and back. And beyond, for that matter.


Oh, Becky! I can't believe you have stooped to letting someone else work on the car! LOL Heck yah, with that kind of stuff I would be doing the same thing!! Course I did! I had hubby and his friend to the timeing and all on my car. Don't worry, I don't think any thing less of you!!! You are playing it smart!!!!  ;D

Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

I have decided to have my next door neighbor/mechanic pull the harmonic balancer (crankshaft) pulley because I cannot do it myself. He will also replace the timing belt and put the timing right. I don't know what I'm looking for, and the books I have are really no help. Once that's done I will personally replace the water pump, put the fan and radiator all back on myself (I can do that! lol.) so I hope folks out here in Pintoland won't think less of me because I cannot do it all. But that's why I sometimes pathetically plead for help, like on the pulley. I just want the BAby to be able to safely make the trip to Buena Park and back. And beyond, for that matter.
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

 ::) Well, you know... ::)

     As for the pulley: I have a short respite from the storms headed my way. Can I simply loosen that nut on the crankshaft pulley or can doimg this be detrimental to the inner workings of the engine? Remember: I am an idiot about stuff like this so be patient with me!!! Pleeeeeze...
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 15, 2009, 11:58:52 AM
I can flirt with the Maverick guy that works at this one! ::) :laugh:

I guess that is the best reason for going there then!!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

I gotta admit I also go to Kragen for ulterior motives... ::) besides the friendly service and that I relied on Kragen (in San Diego) when I had my first Pinto, I can flirt with the Maverick guy that works at this one! ::) :laugh:
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on February 15, 2009, 01:56:21 AM
the nearest Napa Warehouse to me is about 18-20 miles from me.. Not a drive i really wanted to do. They do carry alot of parts but Im not Going to go there if they are far away.(unless im going to the J/Y anyways

Yah, my Napa is about 15 miles from me too! I have a Kragen and AutoZone about 1/2 mile away in either direction. After numerous failed tries on getting parts from them I finally gave up and just do the drive to Napa!! LOL
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

75bobcatv6

the nearest Napa Warehouse to me is about 18-20 miles from me.. Not a drive i really wanted to do. They do carry alot of parts but Im not Going to go there if they are far away.(unless im going to the J/Y anyways

blupinto

And Ghost has pop-out widows too... ;)

Congrats on Ghost being driven! Yes, it seems the younguns don't appreciate history til they're  artifacts themselves! lol. 

       One thing I noticed AZ has is clips for trim and interior panels. I'll have to hunt for what you need...
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on February 14, 2009, 11:28:56 PM
Oh Kim that would be SO COOL!!!! Please do come! I would so love to meet you both and see The Ghost in the flesh (or at least the metal!lol) If all else fails put Hubby in a headlock! lol.


        A pulley puller... now you've got me scared. I'm not so worried about if I can get the pulley off as much as I'm worried about turning the pulley nut and thus moving anything inside the crankcase.


        Kragen had my WP and lower hose (the guy who has the '71 Maverick even gave me a discount!) so I don't really have issues with them but the human factor at AZ was what I took issue with ("oh, we can put a 12-hour hold on that gasket for you...") ("It's about a mile away if you stay on this road...") Grrrrrrr....

          I have a Napa nearby but I think they close earlier than the others, and they didn't have my WP when I went around to get prices for stuff.

I may come down on my bike (m/c) if I can't talk hubby into taking the car, or going at all!!!

Oh yah, forgot that I have a Napa Wharehouse here! so that kinda makes a difference on them having my parts!! The little Napa stores within the city don't have the parts all the time, but I live close to the main warehouse, so that is where I go first!!

Off topic a bit, but my kid drove my Pinto out of the garage for the first time!!!! LOL I was excited for him to be driving such a classic, although he didn't realize what he was driving!! LOL

Ok, back on topic!! LOL  Can't wait to here how tomorrow goes for you Becky!! I hope you can make more progress on the Baby!!! I'm planning on starting on the "patch job" on the headliner on the Ghost tomorrow!!!

You know I was thinking, we really do have carbon copy's of cars now!! My Ghost is supposed to be a Copper color!!!!!! It is an automatic too!!! LOL

Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Oh Kim that would be SO COOL!!!! Please do come! I would so love to meet you both and see The Ghost in the flesh (or at least the metal!lol) If all else fails put Hubby in a headlock! lol.


        A pulley puller... now you've got me scared. I'm not so worried about if I can get the pulley off as much as I'm worried about turning the pulley nut and thus moving anything inside the crankcase.


        Kragen had my WP and lower hose (the guy who has the '71 Maverick even gave me a discount!) so I don't really have issues with them but the human factor at AZ was what I took issue with ("oh, we can put a 12-hour hold on that gasket for you...") ("It's about a mile away if you stay on this road...") Grrrrrrr....

          I have a Napa nearby but I think they close earlier than the others, and they didn't have my WP when I went around to get prices for stuff.
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

I'm taking it you don't have a Napa Auto Parts there????   That is the only place I go to for Pinto parts!!! Well, for most all my parts! I just don't like Kragen and AutoZone because 99% of the time, those places don't have the part I'm looking for!! Napa has never failed me. Well, maybe on the headlight and windshield wiper switches, but other then that, never failed me!! LOL

I'm glad things are going good for you now!!!! Can't wait to here about the first time you come back up the hill!!! LOL

Oh, Becky!! I'm trying to talk hubby into trailering my Pinto to Knotts!!!! So I hope I can meet you there!!! I have till April 5th to talk him into it!!!!! If I do, I'll be bringing the Ghost!! Since it is the one that actually can move on it's own with no problem!! LOL

Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

75bobcatv6

I had that Issue with Autozone a few days ago when i went after a serpentine Belt for a family members car. They said they could order one and that it would be there the next day. I go in and It wasn't there Nor had they a record that they ordered the part. So they called around and found me a store that had the belt ( the hub store) so i go there and they should have picked the part and put t on hold, I get there and they are selling that belt to another person. Again they call around and I go on a goose chase to 9 other stores, all say they have the belt but when they go look its not there. Finally I went to checker and and low and behold the next day I have a belt for the car.

As for the pulley that you mentioned, I believe you can rent a pulley puller at Checker and or Autozone for those to take it off. 

blupinto

Thank you Kim and everyonme for your help. I just got back from a wild goose chase because the nearest AutoZone told me they had one water pump gasket but it disappeared after I got there. The guy at the counter told me the AZ "about a mile away" has one in stock. Also their radiator bolt clips had been opened and both packages were missing one clip. It turns out the AZ the yahoo was talking about was almost 5 miles away! No wonder I had a time locating it!

     Now I have what I need (I hope!) to continue next time.

1) the old pump. Note a piece is missing from the heater hose outlet. The gasket was darn near nonexistent.

2) Can I get this pulley off without messing something up?

3) closeup of pulley (I believe it's the camshaft pulley, and the rest of the timing belt is on the sprocket.
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Congrats on the great progress!!! I'm glad things are going better for you and baby!!!  ;D  Here's hoping for no rain in your area for tomorrow!!!

Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Happily the atf thing worked!!! Thank you Phil for further endorsing that. What a relief it was when first one, then the other nut broke the tenacious hold onto their respective mates. The next hurdle was getting the fan pulley off the water pump. Then the pump itself wasn't moving for love or money (I'm getting the idea that the Baby wants to keep all her parts, warts and all! lol.).  The W.P. gasket is no more so I'll be picking that up tonight. The sky here is cloudless now but there's rumored to be another storm tomorrow, so I'll resume this later.
One can never have too many Pintos!

phils toys

Last winter  i replaced the water pump on my bobcat (ac, smog, power steering) and did not have to remove the radiator. it was a pain to get the bolts out of the fan. and the smog pump and its bracket had to come off to replace the lower hose. If you do have to  cut the lines  make  sure  to double clamp the rubber hose on each end  on the low pressure side it don't  matter  but the high  pressure side may leak. living in a RUST  zone  we learn a lot of  home  repairs. 
The atf trick should work as well  it broke free a  seized motor  in a few minutes that i had been playing with for a few weeks and could not  budge.  i put the tranny fluid  in and by the time i got back with the tools it  had  mad the difference.
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

discolives78


Try using vise-grips instead of channel locks, tighten them until it takes most of your might to clamp them on the offending fitting, you may have a chance at not making it too much worse.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

I'm afraid I don't have those kind of wrenches at my disposal, and thanks to Arnold the Governator they won't be in my budget anytime soon.


        I have used channel locks to unfasten the oil drain plug on my Rodeo because that bolt was getting rounded. I'll give that a try before I perform a rubberdectomy.
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

If the nut is rounded, I have used a set of lock jaw pliers/vice grips to clamp down on the nut and turn it. This is how I had to remove the steel pump to carb fuel line that I have in storage so I could have it reproduced. Granted the place I had it reproduced did not make it right, but that is another story.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

discolives78

flare nut wrenches. these are for brake/fuel etc with similar fittings



Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

blupinto

Actually, Chuck, that's a better drawing than either Chilton's or Haynes had! lol. As it turns out I also had to remove the horn assembly to get to the lower left bolt holding the radiator in place.


         because I have already begun rounding the stationary nut I think it's a good idea to not try that method (the normal way) anymore. Ideas, suggestions please!  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

I did try to do it w/out removing the Pain In The A-uh radiator but the water pump is behind the fan and I can't remove the fan because the bolts that hold the fan on the fly wheel (?) are slightly longer than the space between the fan and the radiator (naturally! lol.) Plus, I seem unable to remove the belt with the fan there.

       I went to Kragen to pick up the lower radiator hose (another reason to remove the radiator) and one of the guys suggested ATF, type F or Dexron/Mercon. If nothing else I'll have to cut the line and insert special rubber transmission cooling line hose and new ends in their place. The guy I was talking to has a '71 Maverick that he did this with because his cooling lines broke.
One can never have too many Pintos!