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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Got some work done on my 71 sedan today

Started by Reed, August 27, 2008, 09:47:42 PM

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Reed

Actually, the floor pans were'n't that bad.  The rust in the trunk is all in the spare tire well.  he floor pans and cowl have already been repaired and POR-15-ed.  The work I am doing now is all dealing with the HVAC system and radio system (or lack thereof).
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

Quote from: Reed on October 25, 2008, 12:40:07 AM
Got the muffler done.  Found a few small rust holes in the trunk.  Due to the factory undercoating the rust is actually from the inside out.  I will deal with that later.

Yup, undercoating can actually hide issues. When I inspected my car, the silent but reasonably involved rust that was hiding between the carpet and floorpans was neatly concealed from beneath the car by the undercoating. It has long since been cleaned up and repaired with POR-15, but nonetheless I experienced the same thing.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

Mostly I am replacing the seats and cleaning and fixing a bunch of stuff in the dash.  I need to get a can of the correct paint for the interior to deal with the surface rust too.  I will post pics when I get it all done.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

discolives78

Cool looking Pinto, Reed! I miss my 72. my interior took a week longer than I planned 5 years ago, and I've had the car for so long that I'm going back and redoing things I did before. Feels like I'm "rearranging the furniture"! Looking forward to seeing your interior when its done!

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Reed

Got the muffler done.  Found a few small rust holes in the trunk.  Due to the factory undercoating the rust is actually from the inside out.  I will deal with that later.

Now it is on to finishing up the interior.   :laugh:
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Reed

I got the Pinto into the garage yesterday and put it up on jack stands.

I snuck out tonight and verified that the rear shocks are TOAST.  Totally dead.  After the shocks were removed the rear end bounced up and down nicely instead of sitting there like a rock.

I also cut a 16.5 inch section out of the muffler line and got about halfway done installing a little cherry bomb.  That should quiet it down some, hopefully.

This weekend I am hoping to finish installing the muffler and get the dash stuff taken care of (radio, heater/A-C, etc....).
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Reed

Cool!  Thanks guys!  I will keep my eyes out for a Cimarron or a MarkVIII.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Pinturbo75

ive got mkviii seats in mine but had to make brackets to bolt to the factory seat rails. comfy though.
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

dga57

Reed,
I doubt if Eldorado seats would fit, but you might look for a junked Cimarron.  I had a 1987 and it actually had very nice leather seats with all the normal power adjustments.  If memory serves me correctly, there was no Cadillac emblem stitched into them or anything like that... should look great in a Pinto!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Reed

Well, both me and my Sister still live with our family, so I would still be able to drive the Pinto occasionally, and I would be in charge of maintenance. 
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

Turn over to your sister? And then....another car for you? Or is that it for your Pinto involvement?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

Hey you reminded me:

I also need to add sound deadening, repaint the black matel bits of my interior due to surface rust, repair/replace the headliner, and fix leaking front and rear window gaskets.

It is driveable, yes, but still needs a bunch of work before I turn it over to my sister.

Keep chipping away!  You will get it done.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

Reed:

  You got me going, so I am thus compelled to share my "must do" list:

1) Finish the brakes
2) Replace the gas tank (has leaks)
3) Replace the windshield gasket
4) Fix the cowl leak hole
5) Rebuild the front end (everything is SHOT)
6) Remove and repaint/rebuild the dash
7) Get another solid steering wheel
8) Sound insulate the cabin and recarpet
9) New window sweeps

OKAY, I'm getting depressed......... :(. Sounds like you have "less" to do - at least you are driving and enjoying it. I am far from that....

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

Yah, its a bunch of little things.  I figure if I can get myself a free weekend of two full days where I don't have to work, I should be able to get most of the interior stuff done.  I am just going to gut the dash all at once.  Pull the glove box, heater stuff, stereo, etc... and replace it all in one fell swoop.  While the dash is torn apart I will hit the junkyard and try and find some nice black seats.  I would love to find something like a junked Eldorado with power leather sets   :afro:  but I am not sure if they would fit.  If I could find some seats with integral seatbelts I would love to ditch the stock shoulder belt.  I am glad I have it for safety, but I had forgotten how much i hate non-retractable belts.    >:(  If I leave it loose enough to adjust he radio it comes unclipped.  If I keep it tight enough so it stays fastened it rubs the side of my neck raw.   >:(    Maybe i will find something in a 80s era K-car, like a Lebaron or New Yorker.

These 15 inch Mustang rims are so wide that the tires rub the fenders in hard turns (such as parking).  The steering effort is too difficult so I am going to try and track down some skinnier rims and tires.  I am hoping to find something off of a Fairmont or some such at the boneyard.  Unless someone wants to trade me a set of the factory slotted mags...with tires.   8)

I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.....
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

Quote from: Reed on October 20, 2008, 03:15:41 PM
Brief update:

Not much more work done.  I got the rough idle and bad gas mileage ironed out though.  I set my base timing at 8 BTDC.  Factory spec is 6.  Plugs are gapped to .045 with the old Mallory Voltsmaster II coil and the pertronix ignition conversion.  The more I drive it the smoother the idle is getting.  I think I am burning carbon out of the cylinders with the leaned up mixture and improved ignition system.  I also think I might be cleaning rust and gunk off of the valve faces. 

I topped up a few weeks ago and have driven roughly 50 miles since the total fill-up.  Just today my needle on the gas guage dropped to halfway between the "F" line and the first line on the guage. I figure I am getting roughly 30 MPG in city driving.  Not too shabby!

I need to pull the interior apart though.  These seats are worn out and hurt to sit in, I need to install a stereo and speakers that work, I need to replace my heater box and fresh air vents, I need to pull the rear seat and build a shelf to extand the trunk capacity, I need to install the dealer A/C unit under the dash, I neeed to install the A/C components under the hood, I need to install the front sway bar, I need to install the last front bumper guard after I replace the broken bolt in it, I need to track down the last few water leaks into the interior, I need to rebuild my windshield wiper linkage, I need to install a higher output alternator, I need to install the new cherry bomb muffler to supplement the rusted out turbo muffler already on the car, and I need to find me some skinnier rims and tires.  That should keep me busy this winter!

Sheesh, Reed:

  Your list sounds all too familar. I need to do about 100 things, too! If I could just get my brake system working, I'd be happy. Don't ask - nearly all of it has been replaced and I'm still trying to get a solid pedal. Man, it can be a lot of work!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

Brief update:

Not much more work done.  I got the rough idle and bad gas mileage ironed out though.  I set my base timing at 8 BTDC.  Factory spec is 6.  Plugs are gapped to .045 with the old Mallory Voltsmaster II coil and the pertronix ignition conversion.  The more I drive it the smoother the idle is getting.  I think I am burning carbon out of the cylinders with the leaned up mixture and improved ignition system.  I also think I might be cleaning rust and gunk off of the valve faces. 

I topped up a few weeks ago and have driven roughly 50 miles since the total fill-up.  Just today my needle on the gas guage dropped to halfway between the "F" line and the first line on the guage. I figure I am getting roughly 30 MPG in city driving.  Not too shabby!

I need to pull the interior apart though.  These seats are worn out and hurt to sit in, I need to install a stereo and speakers that work, I need to replace my heater box and fresh air vents, I need to pull the rear seat and build a shelf to extand the trunk capacity, I need to install the dealer A/C unit under the dash, I neeed to install the A/C components under the hood, I need to install the front sway bar, I need to install the last front bumper guard after I replace the broken bolt in it, I need to track down the last few water leaks into the interior, I need to rebuild my windshield wiper linkage, I need to install a higher output alternator, I need to install the new cherry bomb muffler to supplement the rusted out turbo muffler already on the car, and I need to find me some skinnier rims and tires.  That should keep me busy this winter!
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

discolives78

I just caught that, about the oven cleaner, I'll try anything once! (twice if I like it)  I don't think I can make the bumpers MUCH worse ( or can I ?)  so I'll try that.  Better take the plastic trim off the front bumper first, huh?


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

TIGGER

Quote from: Pintopower on October 07, 2008, 06:10:37 PM
Lookin good! The black top on the car really sets it appart from the others! Adding Pertronix is the best thing you can do! Every one I know with a 2.0 has it installed and they love it!

discolives78,
The ONLY way to polish out the aluminum bumpers is to take them off and FIRST get them deanodized. They will never polish out if you just try to polish over the anodized coating. It is very cheap to get them stripped. I spent about 30 bucks for 2 sets.

Pintopower, I saw on TV this weekend that oven cleaner will strip the anodizing off.  I believe it was on Trucks.  The guy had a piece of trim off an old Chevy pickup.  He used the oven cleaner to get the anodizing off and then he polished it.  I have not tried it yet to see how well it works but it may be worth a shot. 
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

Pintopower

Lookin good! The black top on the car really sets it appart from the others! Adding Pertronix is the best thing you can do! Every one I know with a 2.0 has it installed and they love it!

discolives78,
The ONLY way to polish out the aluminum bumpers is to take them off and FIRST get them deanodized. They will never polish out if you just try to polish over the anodized coating. It is very cheap to get them stripped. I spent about 30 bucks for 2 sets.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Reed

At last report I had disconnected the distributor vacuum retard hose going to the diaphragm. 

I took the car for a long drive today and it felt slightly sluggish, like the timing was over-advancing.  I hooked the vacuum retard bacl up and the engine felt much better, but got a slightly rougher idle.  With the retard working the motor felt a little stronger and shifter smoother (?).

When time permits, I am going to spend some time with a vacuum pump and dial-back timing light and plot out the spark advance curve with and without the vacuum retard.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Reed

I only get to work on my Pinto when i can sneak away from work, so my motivation builds up all week long until I can finally take a couple hours off.

How is your wife's car doing?  If it is still idling rough you should see if your vibration dampener has slipped.  If it has, the timing mark will actually read more retarded than where the timing actually is set.  This will lead to poor idle which in turn leads to setting the idle speed screw higher than it needs to be and richening up the idle mixture more than it needs to be to get the idle smooth. 

I tuned up my brother's van and found that his vibration dampener (on a 1983 Dodge slant six) had slipped 8 degree retarded.  I have taken his van from 3 MPG to 21 MPG (highway) by fine tuning the carb and timing.  The point is that timing is very important.  And the more I work on my 2.0 the more I discover that these are very finnicky carbs and engines that respond to minor changes.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

apintonut

i need to get some of ur motivation!!!!!
i bout a sand blasting kit today and im going to try to get the scrap pinto off the trailer and the 74 on it sand blast and paint the engine compartment and set the turbo engine in.
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

Reed

Snuck out tonight and spent some time tuning my Pinto.

Didf a compression check on the 2.0:

Cylinder 1: 125 pounds
Cylinder 2: 120 pounds
Cylinder 3: 120 pounds
Cylinder 4: 130 pounds

Not to bad for a cold dry compression check.

I have been fighting a rough idle and poor(er than I would like) fuel economy.    After I replaced the leaky valve cover gasket and did the compression check, I gapped the plugs back out to .045 and double checked the curb idle speed, mixture, and timing. 

This time I disconnected both the vacuum advance line and the vacuum retard line (and plugged them both).    I then hooked up a vacuum guage to the intake manifold and checked the timing.   THe timing was right on at the factory recommended 6BTDC.   However, my intake vacuum was pretty low - only about 13 inches.

I tried setting the base timing to achieve maximum vacuum and managed to get the vacuum up to about 17 inches.  I then checked where the base timing was and saw that I was runnign at about 30 BTDC to get those 17 inches of vacuum. Howeverm the engine smoothed way out and I way able to lean out the mixture and back out the idle speed screw to get the motor to idle smoothly at the specified 650 RPM.

At this point I began to think that my viubration dampener had slipped and was no longer indicating the correct timing.   I didn't have time to check if the dampener had slipped, so I put the timing back to what currently reads to be about 16-18 BTDC.     Tomorrow I hope to go out with my positive stop tool and see if 0 on the timing tab is really TDC.

For now, the motor idles much smoother, much quieter, and I was able to lean up my curb idle.       I was getting 20-25 MPG in mixed driving before this tuning session, so I am anxious to see what kind of mileage I get now.     I am hoping that the wider plug gap, the advanced timing, the leaner idle mixture, and the disconnected distributor vacuum retard line will get my mileage closer to 30 MPG.  I am shooting for over 30 MPG and I think I can get there without adding and aerodynamic mods.

Next up will be getting the carpet to sit correctly, adding the chrome carpet hold-downs at the door openings, installing the new heater box I got, installing the new vents and vent controls I got, and then maybe even installing a tach and vacuum guage. 

A pressing problem I discovered is that I have a leak from somewhere on the driver's side of the rear window.  There is a spot where the headliner has been pulled away from the window and underneath this spot a puddle forms and drips into the trunk.     No real rust yet, but I am worried that there might be some rust problems under the vinyl top.   :cheesy_n:

Otherwise the car runs and drives great!    But I do need to replace these worn out seats.    I need to find some nice leather power seats out of a late model import.

Updates and more pictures to come later as more work is done.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Starsky and Hutch

Quote from: discolives78 on September 29, 2008, 09:48:45 PM
At least the early bumpers can be polished out. the bumpers on the 78 are anodized alumunum  and get cloudy with age, anyone know how to take care of that?
even the most expensive carpet will not have holes for anything take it from me ive be in carpets and floors for 34 years you have to cut them
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

apintonut

74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

discolives78

have to try that, thanks for advice, I tried turtle wax chrome polish but that didn't help


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Reed

Mother's metal polish?  All-Metal metal polish?
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

discolives78

At least the early bumpers can be polished out. the bumpers on the 78 are anodized alumunum  and get cloudy with age, anyone know how to take care of that?


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Reed

More work done lately:

Got the heater box back in. It is warped and worn out.  I need another.

Got the new carpet installed.  THe cheap eBay $105 carpet is okay.  Doesn't fit perfect, came in two pieces, didn't have holes for the seats, seatbelts, shifter or e-brake, but it is new and clean.

Replaced the widow felt weatherstripping on the two front doors.   This is more eBay items.   I used the "repop" brand.    Fit and look great, except the inner felts have one clip in the wrong place, so the very front-most clip doesn't go in its hole.    Doesn't really matter though.

Welded the broken track on my driver's seat and reinstalled the seats and lap belts.      First time I have had seats in the car for over a month!   It is much more comfortable to sit in now that the track is fixed.

Confirmed I need a new neutral start switch.     Trying to find a used one to avoid paying $100 for anew one. I need to ditvh the pushbutton in the dash and I want my reverse lights to work.

Replaced the (+) battery cable that was corroded by the arcing poushbutton wiring on the satarter relay.

More work to come.....
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

turbopinto72

Quote from: Reed on August 29, 2008, 03:25:54 PM
No worries.  If it really bother me I will wrap a couple rags around my 7 inch c-clamp and straighten it out.  I was more worries about it being shiny than perfectly straight.      ;D

The Shiny police appriciates that...... :police:
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto