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1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Popbumper's '76 wagon - update

Started by popbumper, August 16, 2008, 08:59:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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popbumper

Quote from: dave1987 on November 24, 2009, 02:36:31 PM
Wow, I haven't checked on this thread in awhile and you've done A LOT!

When I pull my windshield for a new gasket, I plan to remove the dash to repaint, and cut out my rusty floor pan. I really hope I don't run into as much rust as you have, but it's probably unavoidable.

At least I have some hope, seeing that it can be repaired with some time and patience...oh, and some POR-15 to! :)

Dave:

  Good to hear from you. When you get there, if you have any questions, happy to help. Being through it is half the fun, though it can be a long process. I just can't wait to drive it again, though that is a >ways< off. Best wishes!!

CHris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dave1987

Wow, I haven't checked on this thread in awhile and you've done A LOT!

When I pull my windshield for a new gasket, I plan to remove the dash to repaint, and cut out my rusty floor pan. I really hope I don't run into as much rust as you have, but it's probably unavoidable.

At least I have some hope, seeing that it can be repaired with some time and patience...oh, and some POR-15 to! :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78txpony

And just WHY is there a turkey stuck in the wall in picture 6??  ??? ??? 
Looks like an out of control landing...   :o :o 
Too much Wild Turkey for that bird, for sure!   :drunk:

Looks like good progress - too bad the brake setup had to come out again...
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

popbumper

I really have to keep forging ahead on this - yeah, there's LOTS of work ahead, no doubt, and it will take a while. Thanks for the comments!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

smallfryefarm

hey its looking good popbumper. wont be long now, i kid i know it takes like forever to do what your doing. but your patience will have so much reward. but that inner fender is starting to show some rust on it.  :lol: really kidding, your doing a awesome job on her.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

popbumper

Got the motor today - can't say it's a "prize" at all, quite dirty, no exhaust manifold, but looks workable. I'll have to spend some time with it to see what has been done. Lots of work ahead, just need about 2 grand to throw some Racer Walsh goodies on it  :lol:.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Quote from: mikeystoy on November 19, 2009, 11:02:37 PM
what was wrong with the old engine?

It was dirty.... :P

Seriously, it ran fine, but was well aged. As you can see, though, the bad rust in the inner fender really required me to pull the engine so that I could get proper access to it for repair. Besides, I want to have something with a bit more pep, which is why I am getting the other engine that I talked about.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

mikeystoy

what was wrong with the old engine?

popbumper

Almost Home!!

Pic 6: The hoist does a lovely job of getting it up and out. WE hit the radiator support with the harmonic balancer, and got stuck. It took a lowering and repositioning of the chains to allow for the upward motion to be more "forward", pulling the motor into the air.

Pic 7: The hunt is over....I can now see the full extent of the damage that was done to the passenger inner fender by the battery. Wow, what a mess. Having scored a NOS inner fender, I am working with a local high school vocational shop to get the new one welded in. The shop instructor is off next week and has offered to come out to visit the car and assess the repair. If the repair is deemed "do-able" by the school, my total cost will be $0. Yup, free. I am stoked.

I stopped the pics at this point, will have more soon. The day was getting late, we had to clean up and close out the effort. I have a LOT to do now.

Incidentally, a gentleman from Oklahoma is stopping by tomorrow afternoon at the shop on the way to Houston with a modified 2.3 motor (shaved head, cam, headers). I will have to go through it, because it has not run in a while, but the price is pretty nice, and I can freshen this one up and pop it in. No V8 here, no turbo, no updated motor, I just want something better than stock that has some more pep.

Confusion - More to come in this story.....!!! What's next? ;D
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Chapter 2 - Continuance. Knowing I had some serious inner fender rust to tackle, and really, really aching to freshen up the engine comparrtment, I pooled my resources (read: my buddy Gene, who is a '73 Comet owner), took a day off of work, and decided to do the monumental (well, for me anyway) task of pulling the motor and tranny. 4 hours of fun, you can't beat it! Gene really pulled me through this one, using his expertise and understanding of all things automotive. I really appreciate the guy, he has been invaluable in my car restoration, and taught me a lot. I can handle the small stuff, but the big guns belong to Gene.

Photo 2: Setting up: Gene has the "cool tools". He is a gate welder with his own business, and knows "heavy duty. He showed up with a trailer replete with gadgets and goodies, including this nice cherry picker to pull the motor.

Photo 3: Hey, I didn't ask - we spend time pulling things off the engine compartment and motor (radiator, alternator, A/C compressor, fan, etc.), and then Gene heads for the "lower deck", addressing all the goodies beneath (drive shaft, tranny, speedo cable, fuel lines, clutch cable, etc.)

Photo 4: First hookup - ah, yes, the ose hooks find convenient lifting spots on the motor, and we set up the picker. Yes, the motor mounts prove a pain, as one bolt is seized. The exhaust pipe nut could not be in a more inconvenient spot. Several bolts are tough to break loose. Ultimately, it all begins to float.

Photo 5: Maneuvering - yup, gotta watch out for the peripheral stuff, don't want to scratch that nifty new brake setup (which now has to be removed again, ack) as well as all the other harnesses and goodies that reside in the engine compartment, so it can be made fresh and new.

Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Update for November 19th, 2009

You know, once you have space, you have freedom - to spread out, REALLY get yourself in trouble, and create all that much more work to do. :rolleye: Tonite's ditty is one of completion (finally fixed that ugly cowl rust), continuance (hey, you know, let's do something really, really big), and confusion (hmm, there's so much to do now, what is the best path to take)?

Photo 1 - completion! Having successfully tackled cowl corner with an array of welds, putties, mesh, and paint, the area is now ready for an etchable primer and topcoat. I will add in new body plugs here as well.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Quote from: 78txpony on November 17, 2009, 01:25:01 PM
Looks like great progress so far!  It makes a difference having a place to work and leave it all apart and not worrying about the weather. It will make the project move along smoother and earier. I sure wish I had more space!   Man, that rust was pretty bad...  Hopefully you found the worst of all of it now. 


That progress was but a small drop in the larger pool. The real fun starts tomorrow - no kidding - stay tuned for photos and updates.... ;D

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

78txpony

Looks like great progress so far!  It makes a difference having a place to work and leave it all apart and not worrying about the weather. It will make the project move along smoother and earier. I sure wish I had more space!   Man, that rust was pretty bad...  Hopefully you found the worst of all of it now. 

-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

popbumper

Hey Chuck - always good to hear from you, hope all is well your way. C'mon out to Texas and give me a hand, we'll have some good BBQ and a few Coronas!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

discolives78

Congrats on getting shelter worked out for your baby! That's a lot of rust Chris, still glad I'm not facing that, I was just in there on the other side!


:afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

popbumper

Well, I can't just leave it that way. Out comes the new wire wheel pack. Out comes my buddy's MIG welder (I did not show this part, but he put a plate in over the holes at the top). Then comes the POR-15. It's all magical, watching the rust disappear. Well, you know, while I'm at it, might as well take the door off and get the rust behind the hinges. Can you say "R-E-S-T-O-R-A-T-I-O-N"?  ::)

Pic x (I lost count)  ;D - That sneaky water likes to get into EVERYTHING. Well, with the door off, I can restore the door as well.
Pic y - I love POR-15. This pic shows the treated area BEFORE we went back and reground it to weld a sheet metal plate at the top. It looks very solid now.
Pic z - Another shot. Once I get all of this done, the engine pulled, the inner fender replaced, all of this cowl/firewall/windshield surround/etc. will be repainted factory color. Yeah, I'm nuts.
Pic xy - grind it all down and make it shiny!!!


That's all for tonite boys and girls. More to come, hope you enjoyed it.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

smallfryefarm

looking good, man aint it hard to work up under the dash on those cowl pans. i had to cut mine out and replace it, rotted out around the chimney so bad had to go back with new metal.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

popbumper

If ypu have been keeping up, some months ago I mentioned that I would be moving my car to secure indoor storage for the Winter. This presents a real danger  :P, because now I have the room to really "make a mess" of things. I am already envisioning body work, a repaint, a pulled engine and restored engine compartment - I think you get it.

Pic 9 - My baby in her new home
Pic 10 - Oh yes, now having the room, I was able to remove the PASSENGER fender and take a look at the damage from above. Yecch. This is about 30 years of water damage from the car sitting outdoors. Of course, it just gets worse when you grind it all away and expose holes.... Oh, yeah, I loved the silicone sealant someone dumped in there trying to stop it all....
Pic 11 - yup, the water ran down the windshield and sat in the cowl seams, tearing it up. Then, the cowl drains dumped water onto the seam between the cowl and wheel well, nicely tearing up the metal between the spot welds. ACK.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

I really can't wait until the rust is done. I'm close, with the exception of the inner fender, which needs replacing - more on that later. With the area treated in general, I moved on to address the firewall surface itself, again adding sound dampening material. Note the wheel well, which will stay "bare" until all internal/external rust is fully treated.

Pic 7 - Layering of the sound deadener, as around the drivers' firewall
Pic 8 - more of the same
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

pintogirl

Thanks for the update! I like the detail you are putting into you car! One day I would like to put that much detail into one of mine! I think I am going to wait for the right one to come along! I would really love to find a blue one like my Mom had when I was a kid!!

Anyway, back to your project. Keep it up and keep posting the pics! I like to look at them and see the before and after shots!!! Shows that it can be done!!!

Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

popbumper

...so out comes the POR 15, after grinding and phosphoric acid etch. The idea here is of course to knock down any future invasion. I attacked the inside FIRST before going to the source (under the passenger fender), which would also prove ugly.

Now, all I could do here (not entirely shown) is loosen as much flaking rust as possible in the seam and up under the dash. Some of this was nearly inaccessible, and it was more a matter of tearing away the bad stuff, and treating it the best I could. After treatment, keeping it dry really is the only way to stave off future "growth".

Pic 4 - Using the silver POR-15 really reveals the holes left behind by the corrosion. Note the areas that have been eaten away, and will need to be sealed.
Pic 5 - Prep up around the air intake
Pic 6 - A more complete coverage. Note the hole in the curved area - this was punched at the dealer for the dealer A/C drain hose
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Update for November 09, 2009

Where does the time go? November already. WE FINALLY have had some decent weather - and much has been accomplished, though it seems like I can't ever get ahead. The dash/firewall restoration continues, the next batch of ugly rust has been addressed, and the engine compartment is begging to be emptied. At any rate, tonite's episode covers a few more steps in this long, but worthwhile process.

Having finished the drivers' firewall area, and stripped away the heater box and the firewall pad, I was greeted at the passenger cowl side near the air intake by another unforseen mess of rust that had penetrated the firewall from the cowl above. This would explain the nice "swiss cheese" appearance of my passenger floor pan when I first bought the car. This was gonna be some work; as I got into it, I realized what years of sitting in the rain outdoors had done.

Pic 1 - Ah, yes, more rust after some grinding. A few pits, a few small holes, ack
Pic 2 - Another shot, this stuff really gets up into the creases, unfortunately. I thought the drivers' side was bad...
Pic 3 - yet another portrait of loveliness - I'm waxing sarcastic this evening. The water had seeped from above along the cowl, to the passenger compartment, under the seam seal, and all the way to the floor. A real mess.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

Phil:

  You ARE fortunate yours did not need that much! In some respects, I am sorry I bought this car (paid way too much for it, I guess the seller saw me coming)  ::)), but, you know, this allows me to have a much broader learning experience. I am glad I can be a resource - I just can't wait to DRIVE it!!! :lol:

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

phils toys

chris ,
i do enjoy reading your progress as well  and keep in mind all that you do  just in case i ever need to do that type of work my self. fortuniatly  my wagon did not need that much when i got it, But some day it will have to have some of your documintated work done to it. and alll you hard work and referances will be greatly appreichated.
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

popbumper

Dwayne:

  Please don't EVER think what you say will "sound incredibly stupid" - the fact that you even said anything really is encouraging. Nobody here is stupid - we all have different levels of experience and capability - there are guys here who could put me under the rug with their expertise, guaranteed!!  ;)

I think anyone here who has a project on their hands is happy to have someone speak up and notice what they are doing. I put all this stuff out here to show people what can be done, how much I am intersted in Pintos, and to perhaps shed some light on areas that someone MAY get into one day. I personally don't think there is a lot of good documentation on Pinto restoration, so if I can help someone else out, that's just a plus.

  Any reponse is an encouragement; I have always thought of this group as a place to create a common bond. We're all crazy  :P, and we need to share our experiences. Thanks much, Dwayne.

Chris

PS - stay tuned for my Pinto restoration book  :lol:
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dga57

Chris,

I just want you to know that I DO read and enjoy your posts.  The work you are doing on your wagon absolutely blows me away!  Unfortunately, I don't have a mechanical bone in my body when it comes to automobiles and most of what you post goes right over my head.  I've always refrained from posting in your thread because I know most anything I say will sound incredibly stupid... it's just not something I can discuss with much intelligence.  Please do know however, that your efforts are much appreciated.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

popbumper

Sounds good Rob. I think you will like looking into "the belly of the beast".

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

78txpony

Quote from: popbumper on October 19, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
 Love the story on the 442 - like you said, what are the odds against a Pinto?
VERY LOW!!!  I did not plan it as we were just doing time trials.

Quote from: popbumper on October 19, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
What did they have in it?
Highly modified 302 V8, powerglide tranny, Chevy rear, full cage, tubbed with M/T drag slicks. It weighed 2600lbs with driver.  Not enough time to get all the details. It was called Small Endeavors (by Fred Small).

Quote from: popbumper on October 19, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
 Don't worry, we'll whittle your Pinto down to the bone and restore it after I learn how to do all this stuff  
Let me know when I can bring it over...  :P

Quote from: popbumper on October 19, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
 Also - your heater box should not be too difficult, even with the dash in place. The hard part will be getting off the clips that hold the clamshells in place.
I will have to look into this...

Quote from: popbumper on October 19, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
when I put this stuff out, I wonder if it's even worth posting. Maybe I'll just catalogue all this stuff and put together a restoration "document" of some kind.

Do both!  That is what I am doing with the Oldsmobile resto...  I have noticed this board is pretty slow compared to the Olds board - most likely due to a less common car.  Email me when you available this week - I want to come check out your work!  
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

popbumper

Rob:

  Love the story on the 442 - like you said, what are the odds against a Pinto? What did they have in it? Congrats on the award as well - I'm sure that was a big thrill!!

  Don't worry, we'll whittle your Pinto down to the bone and restore it after I learn how to do all this stuff  :lost:. Ya, right.  :lol: At any rate, I placed the old pad over the new stuff, traced the patterns, then hand cut the holes with a long utility knife and/or X-ACTO blade. The spacing was not EXACT but it was close. Funny stuff is, most of this effort gets "buried" by the carpet, so it need not be perfect, but I am trying to at least be sure it is not sloppy.

  Also - your heater box should not be too difficult, even with the dash in place. The hard part will be getting off the clips that hold the clamshells in place. My core was solid - testament to being a southern car - so no need for me to replace it. Of course, I took your advice and thought it a good idea to go after hoses, since everything was right in front of me.

  Thanks for watching and replying - I knew I could count on you  ;D. Said it before, will say it again - I get so few comments when I put this stuff out, I wonder if it's even worth posting. Maybe I'll just catalogue all this stuff and put together a restoration "document" of some kind.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

78txpony

Great progress!  I need to stop by this week to see it for myself.  
How did you make those nice holes int he insulation mat?  Looka like a punch of some sort - very pro looking!
I am starting to wonder if I might be able to change those heater hoses afterall.  The heater box looks somewhat easy to get out (but of course you yanked the dash off first...

BTW, out of all the chances in the world, I got to race my 442 against a 76 Pinto bracket racer on Saturday at the drag strip...  He was faster but I won due to him leaving before the green light!  ;D ;D ;D   We had lots of fun there and my 442 even got the People's Choice trophy!  ;D ;D ;D
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster