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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Just say NO to V8 Pintos!!!

Started by Pintony, August 07, 2008, 11:32:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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Ironman

Quote from: Pintony on August 16, 2008, 08:57:23 AM
AND you have the time a resource to finish the job!!!!


Maybe we could have the thread name changed to,.. "If your gonna start something,... FINNISH IT!"    At least as far as I can tell thats what the point is,... right?
Ironman

Srt

tub it....cut out the firewall....10pt cage.....strut frt suspension....700" mountain motor
as long as it's a PINTO
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Ironman

Quote from: 71pintoracer on August 15, 2008, 09:17:46 PM


lol,
Just my sense of humor.
Man I dont care what anyone does to their car,..  you could cut the firewall out and put in a Rolls Merlin, chop the top and redo the interior with velcro and cover the car with smiley face stickers .  :smile:
My cars originality is going to be destroyed by the conversion I'm doing and  its a 71!.
Ironman

71pintoracer

Quote from: Ironman on August 13, 2008, 10:32:10 PM
ACK!!  Cutting up 71's?  I need to rephrase my earlier post,.. v8 pintos are cool!  but cutting up 71's is very very bad! Once again V8s = cool!,.. cutting 71's= EVIL. Go find a 72 or 73, but leave the 71's alone!

I'm at a little bit of a loss as to this whole HP from the 4 banger thing. It sounds like you guys have gone the distance with these engines, and 200 hp is a very expensive trip.

Do you believe the Duratec will actually produce the HP claimed over the net with the minor modifications they describe?


So sorry Ironman that you think I am EVIL for putting a V8 in my '71  :(. But ya know what? It's my damn car!!! Some of us are not satisfied putting around with a whimpy 75 HP 4 banger!
And as far as cutting up the car? I don't understand the whole cutting up thing. I cut a section out of my firewall and boxed it in. With the engine in you can't even see it. If you could see it, 99% of the people wouldn't even know that it wasn't made that way. My entire radiator support is still there, it is just notched for the cap and also boxed in and looks like it came that way. Thats it-thats all of the "cutting" that was done!
Second of all, I have EVERY stock part that came off this car from the entire drivetrain down to the factory muffler and dog dish hub caps boxed up, labeled and in dry storage. I can put this car back to factory original any time I want to, and that includes putting the firewall and support back the way they were (read: doner car, cut, trim, weld, fill, sand, paint. Presto!)
I like my car, I like going fast, I like racing. I like having the first model year made, I like having 275 HP that runs smooth, idles smooth, and runs on 87 octane. So far I haven't found anything I don't like about my "evil swap".  :devil:






If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Norman Bagi

No problem,

I was just razzing, I know you didn't mean anything by it.  :cheesy_p:

If all the Pintos were on your lawn, they would be running.

I, just like everyone else need more money, I got my eye on a 410 HP V8, mine just isn't big enough.  But then I would have to fix the suspension, connect the front and rear frame rails, change the rear end, install a bigger gas tank, etc.  ON second thought, what were you saying "Just say no to V8 Pintos"  You may be onto something.

Norman Bagi

Quote from: Pintony on August 13, 2008, 08:46:17 PM
Hello rear ended,
BUT you did not do the swap your self!!!!
That is what I am talking about!!!
Find a Pinto that has been prepaired for a V8 or one that already has a V8 like you did. Not cut up a low milage driver and then loose your storage at your friends house that your wife did not know about anyway!!!
Thank you for doing the right thing!!!
I do not have a problem with the V8 installed in a Pinto in any way.
Only the ones that are someones PIPE-DREAM and never finish them
Actually I may have one myself one day. Fact is I already do!!!

From Pintony

PIntony,

I am a little lost on the message, 
" BUT you did not do the swap your self!!!! "
Sounds a little like I couldn't have done the swap. I accept the challenge?  I found a new daily driver I am going to destroy and leave engine less on your lawn, but don't tell my wife.  :lol:
I thought I was agreeing with you. I was saying that it $ux to see boneheads that do not complete what they start. I am sorry your freind left a cut up Pinto at your place and didn't tell his wife.  It is obvious that has you're pissed, and you should be, it was a waste of a good Pinto. 

turbopinto72

Looks like there have been some posts deleted in this thred.....................................
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Ironman

Quote from: FCANON on August 13, 2008, 01:35:35 PM
:lol: I don't under stand the anti V8 Pinto movement...and as far as I'm concerned the only Pintos worth V8ing is 71-73 I really preffer 71-72 but thats just me....
I have to pull my motor and refresh the paint under the motor this fall and winter so I will do a FAQ page on trimming the firewall, Cutting out the innerfenders and moving the firewall back. Maybe that will keep peoples good intentions from going bad when starting a V8 project.

FrankBoss



ACK!!  Cutting up 71's?  I need to rephrase my earlier post,.. v8 pintos are cool!  but cutting up 71's is very very bad! Once again V8s = cool!,.. cutting 71's= EVIL. Go find a 72 or 73, but leave the 71's alone!

I'm at a little bit of a loss as to this whole HP from the 4 banger thing. It sounds like you guys have gone the distance with these engines, and 200 hp is a very expensive trip.

Do you believe the Duratec will actually produce the HP claimed over the net with the minor modifications they describe?





Ironman

CHEAPRACER

I don't think anyones a bad person for destroying a car by not finishing it, If I wanted to put a v8 in a Toyota Corolla and didn't finish it, I'm sure there's a croud out there somewhere that would hate me for that. I don't really care about those cars and it would mean nothing to me just as is doesn't to the guys doing the Pinto swaps. You have to remember theses cars are still the butt of many jokes. I overheard a guy at the Knotts meat last year commenting "this guy has more money in his engine then the entire car" refering to the gorgeous Black v8 Pinto. Kinda pissed me off but I'm too quiet of a guy to say anything. I love v8's, They sound awesome, My 4 banger doesn't run as smooth but I love it too, hell put anything in one just to be unique.

As that Knuckle head Jesse James would say (not exact quote)" It just makes the other ones just that much more valuable"  as he tore into a perfectly good SS Chevy (El Camino I believe) and destroyed it.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

77turbopinto

Hey, what happened to B-B-B's post about his 9K-rpm 300HP $3k N/A 2.3 motor??

I would like to hear more about it, not less; its a good way to find out WHO knows what they are talking about.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

FCANON

no...you are right..and very cool I must admit. The pacer did come with a V8 but it didn't sale well with it...they even changed the hood so the motor would fit...Honestly if you didn't mention it I would have never known..thanks

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Norman Bagi

Sorry Gremlin, Pacer, what's the difference.
All right lets hear it.

FCANON

I've seen quite a few Gremlins with V8s but never a factory Pacer(not that I never thought about it)...I gotta see this I'm off to google.

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Norman Bagi

A V8 Pinto is addictive.  I understand saving the daily drivers from the boneheads that start what they cannot finish can be a futile effort.  But mine sure puts asmile on my face, my boys faces and everyone she cruizes past. AMC understood this when they puit a v8 in a Pacer, that is when putting a V8 in a Pinto became important.  Someone had to show them how its done. Pintos are cute little cars, they are fun little cars, but when changed they become mean little cars.  :devil:

turbopinto72

I stand by all my information in this post. Apparently bigbellybob thinks I don't know what I am talking about ( this was in a private email ). Thats fine, I am not convincing anyone to do anything, just pointing out some facts. I still say 300 Hp in a N/A motor is  about max and to get that your talking about all aluminum motor on Alky. Which you would spend much more that $ 3,000 on.
71Pintoracer has the experience and parts to run what he says. He probably spent a few dollars on parts to make his engines last.( even though he gets then at a good price :)
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

popbumper

That's very helpful Frank. Unfortunately, most of the guys who start these conversions probably aren't involved in the PCCA - they are more interested in throwing something together than preserving Pintos. Your information will still go a long way towards the members here, though.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

FCANON

 :lol: I don't under stand the anti V8 Pinto movement...and as far as I'm concerned the only Pintos worth V8ing is 71-73 I really preffer 71-72 but thats just me....
I have to pull my motor and refresh the paint under the motor this fall and winter so I will do a FAQ page on trimming the firewall, Cutting out the innerfenders and moving the firewall back. Maybe that will keep peoples good intentions from going bad when starting a V8 project.

FrankBoss

www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

71pintoracer

OK all you V8 wanna-be's-take note!! Here are a couple of cast offs for a cheap price to do your swap. So buy them and save them from the crusher instead of cutting up another driver.
As far as the other side of this post, my old 2.0 ran mid 13's with a 75 shot of juice. My G-meter put the HP at 215. This is with 3:55 gears and a 4 speed shifted @ 7800.
In my racing experence with the 2.3's, I woild turn stock bottom ends 8K all the time. The heavy flywheel is what seems to break the crank if you go higher. The bottom ends on both of these engines are super strong even in stock form. The 2.0 racer was spun 9K all the time.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

douglasskemp

The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

CHEAPRACER

Quote from: Pintony on August 12, 2008, 06:44:28 PM
What does this have to do with V8 projects gone bad???


:wow:

I motion to have the thread changed to " 4 cyl bragging rights gone bad"

I'm not taking sides here but my n/a 2.3 stock rod (but heavily massaged) combo sat at 7k rpm without a whimper in water burnouts and who knows where it was shifted out of the hole, I just counted to 2 with 5:13 gears then bang to 2nd... never did run a full pass in that thing without something else breaking...sorry, reminiscing again
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

FCANON

I'm still not buying the numbers alledged in the 73 2.3L Automatic Pinto built on a 3500 budget.....Brad when the last you talked to Dan maybe he can educate us on these Numbers from Esslinger ... I've spent many hours on a flow bench with oval 2.3L heads and to be honest I don't think it possible for a Cheater head to flow enough to support that HP with out Boost.

FrankBoss

www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

turbopinto72

I would say that the engine in this video has a few more ponies than your motor. Check out the dyno runs, look at the max rpm and Hp ratings. Take a look at when the max Hp is VS the rpm. BTW it looks like this motor puts out 189 HP on an engine dyno. Not to shabby I would say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8bmb3JqnqE
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

77turbopinto

Quote from: bigbellybob on August 11, 2008, 10:59:23 PM
....hp is directly related to RPM's and i should make peck hp around 9,000rpm.  i use should and about because i have never had the car on a dyno......

"Should" and "Does" are a world apart.

HP is a fictitious number based on RPM and torque.

A N/A 2.3 with over 150HP does not like to be used as a 'd/driver'. In basically stock form, a 2.3 can run to about 7K safely, but getting to 9K ain't easy ('Pinto' 2.3s tend to be a little more durable than the later 2.3s). 

Even with all the mod.s I have made to my car I am no-where near 300HP.


I agree with Brad, those claims are way out there; be carefull WHO gives you information and WHY.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbopinto72

Quote from: bigbellybob on August 11, 2008, 10:59:23 PM
turbopinto72 hp is not directly related to ET's if my car made any torque it would run faster. hp is directly related to RPM's and i should make peck hp around 9,000rpm.  i use should and about because i have never had the car on a dyno. Esslinger gave me the ruff numbers and help with a lot of decisions. siting in the car you would know its pulling very hard 6000-9000. you told me nothing about that motor. so i don't have as much titanium and risk braking the stock crank. show me some specs. manufacturers and materials are worthless info.  i believe the car to have about 300hp.

FCANON if it had a 5speed and a 9 inch stuffed with 600 gears dragging bumper would it be cool?

OK, so lets do some math. Lets say your car weighs in at 2500 lbs and you say you run mid 13s technically you should be able to do that with 201 Hp. Now, you claim your car has * About 300 hp * so factor that in and you get 11.8 @ 115 mph. I don't know how light your car is so lets give it the benefit of a doubt and say that its super light, * About * 2100 lbs , that will get you an 11.1 @ 122 mph. Or, maybe your car is really heavy, say 2900 lbs, with 300 hp that should run a 12.4 @ 109. Notice all the *should's* and *Abouts* here ?
So, a stock N/A 2.3 engine has * About * 105 hp ( note, there are several hp ratings but I chose the higher one). Now, if you start adding up all the manufactures claims for bolt on items you could get all kinds of results. Lets make a short list.
Cold air intake
Free flowing exhaust
Electric fan
Programed Chip ( not known if the car is EFI or carburetor )
Long tube header
Adjustable timing gear
Cam shaft
Ok, so we get any where from 20 to 30 hp here. How about a big valve head, maybe another 25-30, how about a shot of NOS ( stock rods and pistons ) 50 shot max. Lets see where we are . 105+30+30+50= 215. Ok and thats at the flywheel so deduct for the auto trans etc. maybe 10% and you got 194 rear wheel HP.
By the way, do you have a tach in that car? are you sure you are spinning it at 6-9k ? reason I ask is that the stock stuff does not last long at 6k let alone 9k AND you should be getting your peak torque at * about * 5500 rpm. Just for grins I am attaching Bo's ( from Boport.com ) dyno notes from his stock  93 N/A 2.3 mustang LX. Its pretty interesting.
Dyno 1 (baseline) netted 79whp. Thats right, 79whp at a blistering 4400rpm. Torque was an incredible stump pulling 116ft# at 2700rpm

Second pull was with the air filter assembly removed (I know, like this monster needs more power..) netted 82.7whp Incredible horspower production.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

FCANON

not to mention this 73 is a automatic car...... makes me wonder

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

turbopinto72

Quote from: bigbellybob on August 11, 2008, 04:33:38 PM
im not saying my car is the fastest but it has ran mid 13's and has about 300hp naturally aspirated 2.3L.

At 300hp your car should be in the low 12s. But, lets talk about a N/A 300 hp 2.3 motor. HA !!!!!! I say. No way, sorry but I want to see a dyno sheet. Esslinger is putting out about 320ish HP with their Midget motors and they are as follows:


Displacement: 161 cubic inches
Weight: 220 lbs.
Block: All Aluminum Esslinger with fully integrated girdle and Ductile sleeves
Head: Reverse cooling S.O.H.C. five-tower aluminum Esslinger
Oil Pan: Cast Aluminum (not fabricated) with 2 oil pickups
Oiling System: Four stage Barnes Hi-Vac dry sump rotor pump
Fuel/Power Steering: KSE combo pump
Water Pump: Two piece cast Aluminum Esslinger with oil pump drive
Ignition: MSD DIS2 programmable
Crank: Knife edge A.D.I. Esslinger
Rods: Titanium
Pistons: Forged J.E.
Valves: Titanium
Retainers: Titanium

Keepers: Titanium
Rocker Cover: Ceramic coated cast aluminum
Exhaust System:
Dirt - Three step equal length merged collector
and Coast Fabrication muffler
Pavement - Five step equal length 4 into 2 into 1 collector
and Coast Fabrication muffler

So, You got one of those????????
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

popbumper

Wow, this thread took an obtuse turn...... :hypno:

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

bigbellybob

i happen to like bench racing. its good way to spend the time not racing.

FCANON

you have any documentation to back up those numbers? or are we bench racing again? I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I can post a time slip from my race car and tell people its my stock 2.3L....

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

popbumper

Here's some recent listings of "Pintos gone bad" - these will most likely end up at the scrapper, too. Tears me up:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/784811716.html

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/790893030.html

What a mess.  ???

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08