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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

a 72 that could be mine, but I need all your help!

Started by pintobassdude, July 28, 2008, 01:20:15 PM

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pintobassdude

Thank you bigbe

Anyone else if you guys could answer my previous C4 questions?

Thanks!


pintobassdude

Bigbellybob!

Thank you so much for those pictures man! I really appreciate it!

Now one more question.. did he tub the car? did he tub it and move the springs in? or is that the stock wheel wells?

Thanks bro I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!! :-*(haha!)

pintobassdude

Quote from: pintobassdude on August 01, 2008, 10:23:46 AM

Anyone able to help me with the tubbing info? I want to do a mini tub (no backhalfing, just spring relocation and tubbing to the existing frame.

If anyone has a stock 72 pinto and you got some free time on your hands maybe you could go outside and measure from the inner lip of your rear wheel well all the way to the frame and give me an idea of what tire I could fit under there with a tub job!

I also got some questions about the stock C4 tranny. What torque converter does it come with? and will this tranny bolt up to the 5.0L? What about torque converter swaps, I was thinking about putting in a 3500 stall converter but I don't know if it will fit...


Thanks all! :tgif:


Anyone? and for the tubbing I am going for the tucked tire look

pintobassdude

Do they tuck under the fenders? or do they stick out like that rat rod look?

Ask him if he backhalved as well or if he just tubbed it!

Thanks man!


bigbellybob

Quote from: pintobassdude on August 01, 2008, 02:41:39 PM
Does he have room to go wider?

i don't think so. he runs slicks at the track. the slicks are definitely the biggest ones that will fit. almost touch inside and out side. i will get the size tonight and post back

pintobassdude

Quote from: bigbellybob on August 01, 2008, 02:16:40 PM
my dad runs a 275 60 r15 under the rear of his 71 with no body mods

Does he have room to go wider?

pintobassdude

A nice size like a 295 60R15

lowest would be a 275 though. I will probably have to tub for that though. Although 71Pintoracer said it is easy to tub these cars

Quote from: 71pintoracer on July 29, 2008, 09:23:12 PM
OK! Now we're back on track!  ;D The 8.8 is a very good rear and will stand up to a pretty nasty 302. I think that there has to be some major frame work going on already to swap in a coil spring rear. Back halving a car to me means cutting out the entire rear section of a vehicle and installing a race prepped rear frame. I am interested to see what is there now. The rear wheel tubs are an important part of the rear structure of these cars, if you remove them you need to brace the car somehow. On my dirt track cars I made a framework from 2X2 square tubing. (Poor mans backhalving? I dunno). I don't blame you for keeping the car a secret, when you get it lets see whats what and go from there.


Quote from: 71pintoracer on July 28, 2008, 08:51:34 PM
My car is not tubbed or backhalved and at this point I don't intend to do either. 8" tires are about all you can get under the fenders. I have 10" M&H racemasters (13" dia.) that I use for racing and even with custom backspacing they stick out past the fenders.
There is no frame on the back of the car so it can be tubbed very easily, however it is a must to weld in some sort of frame work to help stiffen the chassis when the wheel tubs are removed.

So I dunno if he means backhalving or tubbing :embarrassed:


pintobassdude

HAHA!

hey man

Ya he told me his grandson is bored of Pinto's lol

Nice to meet you too!

Anyone able to help me with the tubbing info? I want to do a mini tub (no backhalfing, just spring relocation and tubbing to the existing frame.

If anyone has a stock 72 pinto and you got some free time on your hands maybe you could go outside and measure from the inner lip of your rear wheel well all the way to the frame and give me an idea of what tire I could fit under there with a tub job!

I also got some questions about the stock C4 tranny. What torque converter does it come with? and will this tranny bolt up to the 5.0L? What about torque converter swaps, I was thinking about putting in a 3500 stall converter but I don't know if it will fit...


Thanks all! :tgif:

Mr.Otnip


    Hey there pintobassdude!

    That guy who owns that 72 pinto is my grandpa! I live in the same town and everything!
  What are the chances of that!!!

    My grandpa mentioned to me that somebody had called about the Pinto. And that happened to be you! That's cool!

    Nice meeting you! :coolrasta:

pintobassdude

OK Cool guys,

So if I move in my leaf springs I should be able to fit in a bit of a fatter tire? My brother who just tubbed his car also has to move the springs in as well to accomodate his new tire size.

So if I move the springs in hopefully I will have some room to play with.

Yesterday at a show I was talking to two guys who told me they know a guy with a pinto that runs 8's and he has full tub and has huge tires but he didn't do a backhalf. I find it hard to believe though since these guys don't really seem to know anything about their cars at all.

But anyways I hopefully want to go up and look at this thing soon

Thanks guys

71pintoracer

Right you are Russ, and the 8.8 is a popular rear and most likely that is what was done. (converted to leaf springs) All this talk about backhalving got me ahead of myself!!  :lost:
To answer your other questions, the carb'ed intake will bolt up, that is what is in my car, my engine came from an '89 mustang. I think the 850 is too much for the engine you are getting. I used a 600.
The MII mounts are what you need for the swap but I think you need two left side mounts?? Or maybe move the left frame mount?? Not sure on that, you can search the archives.
As far as tubbing, Russ is correct on that as well. As I said before, my 10' slicks stick out past the fenders and I had the backspacing set up to get as close to the leaf springs as possible.
I made lowering blocks for the rear and cut the coils to get the stance I wanted.
As I said before, Summit sells the swap headers but they are expensive. I have seen them on e-bay a few times, mine were new and I got them for $160.00.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

russosborne

Quote from: pintobassdude on July 30, 2008, 05:13:14 AM
Thanks so much guys!

So leafs are better than coils for drag racing?

I didn't say that. All I was saying was that just because it has an 8.8 rear doesn't mean the car was converted to coil suspension.
If drag racing is your main concern, there are other suspension options that are better than either leaf or coil.
As far as tubbing is concerned, if all you do is cut off the stock wheel wells and install tubs, all you are doing is probably giving yourself some room for taller tires, not necessarily wider. Odds are you will need to do some major work on the rear "frame" to get anything really wide. Part of the problem is where the leaf springs are. Adding tubs won't do anything to move the springs, and you will likely hit the springs before the wheel wells.
Note that all of this is based on general experience, and not Pinto specific, but some stuff to think about.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

pintobassdude

Ok well I got some more info but my main concern is TUBBING right now as everything else looks good!

The car only has some little rust under one of the top hatches, otherwise none. He has stock pinto discs up front which I can't seem to find specs for size or bolt pattern on, and the stock drums from the 88 mustang in the rear he got them out of and I also cannot find the bolt pattern of these.

The 302 he took out of a 87 mercury cougar and was initially fuel injected. Ford rebuilt it, he then bought it off them for 200 bucks (he worked for ford) and sent out the heads to get machined and cleaned up and it is also bored 20 over. He is also wiling to sell me a edelbrock high rise intake and a holley 850 cfm carb. What I wan't to know is if this fuel injected engine will bolt up to a carbeurated top end (will the bolt pattern match up?)

He also said he will throw in free brand new mustang II mounts for the swap that he got from ford racing but I think I have heard you guys saying that those won't actually fit the swap. He also said he will throw in the headers from the cougar and said that the hard curve on them may actually be able to fit the pinto (but I doubt it).

As for tubbing. I want to know HOW WIDE OF A TIRE I CAN FIT UNDERNEATH THIS THING WITH JUST TUBBING! I AM NOT TALKING TREADWIDTH I AM TALKING SECTION WIDTH THE WIDEST PART OF THE TIRE!

As far as backhalving, my father said he won't help me do that so I really wanna know what meat I can stuff under this thing just by tubbing it!

For a rad I think I am gonna look for a datsun 280 one like I saw in one thread.

If I want this thing to have a nice low stance what springs should I be looking for front and for rear?

And last but not least, are these V8 swap headers still being made by anyone at all? because I really don't want to do the flipped mustang II shorty trick

Any help would be appreciated guys as I can always count on you all!


pintobassdude

Thanks so much guys!

So leafs are better than coils for drag racing?

Well I am going to call the guy again tonight and get some more info on it and report back to you guys!

Thanks for all the help so far guys I greatly appreciate it! It's great to find some people who actually like these cars! thank god for the internet ;D

russosborne

The 8.8 rear can be easily modded to use with leaf springs. All that has to be done is to cut the coil mounts off and weld on some leaf spring perches at the proper location, depending on the car. It is starting to become more common in the vintage Mustang community to do this. Especially when you have one that already has disk brakes on it. It isn't exactly a bolt in, but if the person can weld it isn't difficult.
Just wanting to clear up any confusion. :lol:
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

71pintoracer

OK! Now we're back on track!  ;D The 8.8 is a very good rear and will stand up to a pretty nasty 302. I think that there has to be some major frame work going on already to swap in a coil spring rear. Back halving a car to me means cutting out the entire rear section of a vehicle and installing a race prepped rear frame. I am interested to see what is there now. The rear wheel tubs are an important part of the rear structure of these cars, if you remove them you need to brace the car somehow. On my dirt track cars I made a framework from 2X2 square tubing. (Poor mans backhalving? I dunno). I don't blame you for keeping the car a secret, when you get it lets see whats what and go from there.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

pintobassdude

sorry man, but I never found out till after I posted that.

This car has some serious stuff done to it already!

c4 tranny
8.8 rear out of a 88 mustang i think with posi and 4:10 gears
He has a fully rebuilt 302 he may be selling me as well.
No rips in the interior

This was truly a gem I found!

SO my questions...

will the 8.8 handle a 302, yes according to the previous post it will!
Will the C4 that he has in the car bolted up to the 2.0L bolt up to a 302? or will I have to get another C4 or mod it for some fittage?
And tubs! That is what I am worried about, I want to fit at least a 10-12 inch wide and 27-29 inch high tire without having to backhalve the car ( so just cutting the wells so that they are flush with the frame rail and tubbing them)

Sorry guys that I have misinformed you, I just didn't want someone else to find the car and go for it before I did as my brother did that on his mopar forum and some dude pulled that stunt on a potential 67 cuda he was going to get.

But yes this car is pretty much sold on me! I am going to go look at it with my pops and hopefully from there I am gonna drop the cash.

So 71PintoRacer if you could please answer my tub question I would greatlyyy appreciate since you know what your talking about when it comes to racing pintos.

once again thanks to all for your help!!! :afro:

71pintoracer

 :wow:  ??? OK I'm confused. Somehow i thought this was a stock '72 we were talking about. if it has a 8.8 it has some major mods already. 8.8 is a coil spring rear.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

pintobassdude

So tubbing the car would require me to weld frame supports? would that not be considered backhalving?

And if I tub it without backhalving whats the biggest tire I can tuck under there?

Oh and BTW guys this thing already has a 8.8 rear end with 4:10 gears and posi, and a whole bunch of other stuff I won't  mention yet, which is why I want this car... ;D

oh ya...all for 2 grand or maybe less :o

would the 8.8 rear handle the power of the 302?

Thanks guys!

71pintoracer

Glad the thread helped! Do you mind if I ask why you want to use the early body for your swap? I have to admit if I were looking for a car I would go for a 74 up, and not a driver. I would pick up a decent body and go from there. I like the early cars small bumpers though, I would swap them. Other than that they look the same on the outside. What I'm saying is if I were going to pay two grand for a nice stock driver I probably wouln't drop a V8 in it and backhalf and tub it. I would pick up a  body and go that route.
The T5 is working great, I love grabbin' the gears! The only thing I had to do was move the clutch cable to the outer side of the steering shaft for clearance, it was too close to the header. I made a simple bracket to move the mounting at the bellhousing over about one inch. (Forgot to post that on my thread) Also had to shorten the driveshaft.
My car is not tubbed or backhalved and at this point I don't intend to do either. 8" tires are about all you can get under the fenders. I have 10" M&H racemasters (13" dia.) that I use for racing and even with custom backspacing they stick out past the fenders.
There is no frame on the back of the car so it can be tubbed very easily, however it is a must to weld in some sort of frame work to help stiffen the chassis when the wheel tubs are removed.
As far as handling, you are adding a few hundred (?) pounds to a nose heavy car. A lowered 4 cyl car with wide sticky tires handles good. The same car with a V8-not as good. If you want a road racer you probably don't want a V8. As far as normal driving, I don't see a bit of problem. I don't know who Pintony rode with but my car drives and handles fine, and I don't have a bit of problem as far as a "heavy feel" in the steering. Yes, it is different than the 4cyl, but by no means "unrefined" or a pain to drive. If that is going to be a big concern then use the 74 up car and you can have power steering. I don't see a need for it at all in my car.
I have owned, driven and raced Pintos since they first came out in 1971. At one time I owned 15. I'm now down to 4. This is my second V8 car and I have to say I am very very pleased with the way it turned out, and in no way sorry I did it.  ;D
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

pintobassdude

Thank you veryyy veryyy much 71pintoracer!

Your thread on your build has been very inspirational to me as I know I can this swap with some time and effort and ahem...money! haha

The T5 tranny, how is that workin for ya?

And please tell me really how bad is the handling on a V8 pinto? For me this car would be for going straight and not weaving traffic. For reference I drive a Ford F550 flatbed every day and 95 ford escort or 91 Sierra.

Also is your car tubbed at all? I was planning on hopefully fitting a 10-12 inch tire but I wonder if it would require backhalving or would the frame of the car allow a wide enough tub?

Thanks for your help guys, please keep the responses coming!

Unfortunatley this guy's house is busy when I call so no direct quotes yet...I am gonna try to talk him to 1500-2000 if I can by pretty much cutting up the car and telling him how crappy he is! (its gonna be hard) but I hope he ain't a Pinto guy otherwise I am screwed if I do that! ;D

71pintoracer

The 71 V8 swap can be done, but as Pintony said, not as easily as the 74 up cars. I modified the firewall to get the engine back 2" so it would fit and used a short water pump. The headers are made by hooker, I got mine on e-bay but they are rare. Summit still sells them but they are $450.00. I did not have to cut my inner fenders however some of the headers are made to go out of the side instead of under the car like mine and require that they be cut out. I'm not sure what type Summit sells. I made everything to put the V8 in my car, the MII mounts are hard to find and pricey. Personaly I like the mounts in my car, it frees up all the room back in the engine bay, the starter can be removed and the headers can be taken out without a problem. The AOD is a big trans and won't fit without a lot of firewall mods. Stick with the C4 or have more fun and go with a T5 like I did! As far as ride and handling, My car has a stock '89 5.0 HO and it rides and drives and idles nice and smooth. It will not however out handle a 4cyl. I'm very pleased with the V8, the 4cyl I had was too wild for the street, the V8 made the car a driver again with gobs of horsepower. I can cruise and put-put around in 4th and 5th gear, the cam was so wild in the 4cyl that I was always putting it in neutral or downshifting. I plan to put subframe connectors on in the near future, any V8 Pinto needs them. So to answer your question, yes, you can put a V8 in the early Pinto with great success, it is just easier to do in the 74 &up.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

pintobassdude

I have seen people install "sub frame connectors". Would these be a good idea to put in to add some stability to the car?

What about AOD tranny's, are these harder to fit than C4's? and are the C4's that fit the swap only ones out of MII cobras or just regular MII's?

I have been looking at 71 pinto racers stuff and he seemed to have a smooth swap on his car. Although he doesn't mention much about cutting fenders or anything to fit headers although I know he did a minor mod to the firewall to fit the tranny. Are those special headers he used still available?

Thanks!

pintobassdude

Thank you Pintony!

I actually just found out the VIN myself but I appreciate the help.

As for looking for a pinto with a V8 in it, I would rather have the fun putting it in myself because I want to get the experience and I am a gearhead. This will be my first project with my father's help (he's a veryyy experienced mechanic) and I would enjoy putting in a V8 myself rather than getting one already in.

But in regards to pre 74 pintos what makes the V8 swap so difficult in these cars? can it not be done? I have seen so many pintos especially 71's with V8's but I can't seem to understand what makes it so hard? is it header clearance? or what? I am probably going to fab up my own exhaust anyhow so can anyone explain what makes a pre 74 so hard for the swap?

Thanks!

pintobassdude

Hey all

I luckily so stumbled upon a yellow 72 pinto runabout about 2 hours away from me here in Canada. I wasn't able to talk to the owner but his coworker gave me his number. This car has NO RUST that I CAN SEE, the interior is mint with only minor tears. and apparently it is a CALIFORNIA CAR! the body is nice and straight and no rust that I could see! underneath looked beautiful as well. Now my questions! the coworker of the owner of this car told me he wants about 2500-3000 dollars canadian for it which I think is an insane deal although I will try to talk him down. The car drives and also has AIR CONDITIONING! so I will probably be driving it back

Now my questions, before I call the guy tonight I want to know if a 72 will be able to get a V8 in it without hassle as I know that V8 swaps are easier in 74 and up but I have seen many V8 71's so I am asuming it can be done. As said before the engine will probably either be a 302 or 351 with a C4. Where do you guys suiggest I go about finding these parts (specifically the 351 and C4 AND IS THERE ANY OTHER TRANNIES THAT WOULD BE A BETTER BET that would fit AS EASY AS A C4?) I also need to get a nice ford 9 inch for the rear end.

My main concern is will the V8 fit?

Here is the VIN number..

Maybe one of you guys could help me decode to let me know if indeed it is really is a california car.

the number is ?2RIIX2I4952?
(those question marks are because it looks like the front and back number have been scraped off but maybe I am just paranoid but the first number that i believe was scraped looks to be a 3 or a 9) I also do not know if those are I's or 1's but I would think they are I's.

Anyways any help as soon as possible would be greatly appreciated! I also saw two mustang II's on my trip that I may be able to use for parts!

Thanks guys!

Andrew