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1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
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Need right door for pinto or bobcat 1977 to 1980 station wagon
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NEED 77/78 MUSTANG II Left Motor Mount
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1979 Pinto 3-door Runabout *PRICE REDUCED*

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1975 rear end, 8 inch, drum brakes, and axles, 3.4 gear.

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80 pinto original

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Hatch needed
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Pinto drive train

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pinto floor mats??

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Nerd Car & Ugly Duckling Show

Started by volo auto museum, May 27, 2004, 12:47:46 PM

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skrach

as the shirt says...  "u laugh cause we are different.... i laugh cause your all the same..!" lol   i drive a pinto cause no one has one.. plus i love my little car.. it takes good care of me! and i would rather not drive anything else...  i hate when people dont have a life, that their only way to entertain themselves is to come onto a website of an exclusive community and insult us by saying pinto's are nerdy, and ugly.. if u want something ugly.. try someother car.. not ours cause we all know that pinto's are great and that...lol  we stand united as pinto owners against the war of discrimination of our automobiles lol   ;D    all hail the pinto...!
long live ford!
1971 Ford Pinto Sedan. Original CA Car. Root Beer Brown. but wont be that color for long. Tired of the poop brown reputation. haha

Poison Pinto

Quote

If you want a "nerd car & ugly duckling" show, get a "fast and furious" crowd to show up with their decal wonders.  THAT is an ugly duckling.

Well said. It doesn't take much more than money to buy a car straight off the lot, tune it with a bunch of bolt-on parts, put in a loud stereo, and slap a big splash graphic from the local parts store on the side.

I bought my car straight out of a field, am tuning it with a bunch of salvage yard parts, putting in a loud stereo, and slapping a splash graphic with a spray brush on the side.

Heck of a lot of difference!  ;D

Oh, and 78Pinto, I was a little put off when I first read the post, too. But after a few days, I decided to visit the website and see the "hating" in person. It wasn't so bad and I don't think it is meant in ill humor. Perhaps a "friendly" email to the Volo museum to let them know the sentiments of "nerdy, ugly duckling" owners over their choice of display name might be in order.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

78pinto

Well, i can honestly say i was a little pissed when i read that post, i so wanted to delete the whole thing......I realize most  people don't look at the pinto in a good way, but in my defence.... if i went to the Corvette forums and posted that same thread what do you think they would think about that......especially if it was my FIRST post! This is OUR site, a haven for Pinto freaks, not really a good place for bashing them from an outsider. I'm proud of my car and the work iv'e done to it, if he had outright said Pintos were a nerd, or ugly ducklings i would have deleted it to avoid the nasty posts that would have followed (by me ;D) but i decided to just let it slide...
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

73pinto

Wow! Great way to get people to an auto show!  ::)

Who got the bright idea to insult peoples cars to get them to come out to a show?  And as stated above, the Maverick should NOT be on that list.  They were very popular cars and VERY pleasing to the eye.  Look at a 71 Grabber and tell me its not a slick looking car.  and 2300lb with a healthy 302 is not what I would call a "nerd" car.

If you want a "nerd car & ugly duckling" show, get a "fast and furious" crowd to show up with their decal wonders.  THAT is an ugly duckling.

-Harry
Stock 73 2.0/4spd 3:40 maximum slip, cd player, pop-out quarter glass.  Soon to be slight performance 2.0/5spd and much more...

Poison Pinto

From the Volo site:

QuoteJune 27... Nerd Car and Ugly Duckling Display - Gremlin, Vega, Pacer, Yugo, Maverick, Etc.

Pinto didn't even make the short list. Guess that's a plus.

What the heck is Maverick doing on that list? The car was Ford's stylistic answer to the Camaro. So it wasn't quite as fluid, it wasn't that "ugly." I guess only we "nerds" who couldn't afford a Camaro drove the Maverick/Comet. I've no qualms with the others on the short list, though.

My guess is it's a display for people with interests that supposedly can't compete with mainstream cars. I dunno. The more I think about it, the more I think it might not be a bad idea to expose people to the cars you don't see every month in the pages of rodding magazines. Maybe if the concepts and histories of the cars are detailed, it could be insightful/educational.

Perhaps it's merely an unfortunate name for the display. At least, I hope that's all it is. I doubt if it were a competitive show that they would brand the cars/competitors thusly. For the general audience, such a name may be clever.

Only we who know and love such off-brand cars take offense at petty teasing. After enduring so much snobbery coming "down" at us, we probably should be the last to act in a snobbish way towards others (no, I'm not saying 78Pinto was being snobbish). And we probably have thicker skin about such matters, too.

Imagine someone going up to a Corvette owner and saying, "Jeez, 'Vettes are so underpowered and ugly, why would you bother?" The 'Vette owner, once he overcame a moment of stunned silence, would probably educate the dweeb with a fast start and a sudden stop (bouncing someone's melon off your dash is a heck of a lot more fun than just punching them).

Looking through the car show thread, it seems like there's maybe one Pinto at an entire car show. How many Mustangs? 'Vettes? Camaros? Deuces?

Yeah.

The problem I see is that many people, casual enthusiasts and hardcore motorists alike sometimes forget it's a lot harder to build a car where you secure parts by scavaging salvage yards and working internet contacts to swap across country or even between countries. Heck, how many suppliers make Mustang replacement parts? And how many make parts for the Pinto? Um. Yeah. I honestly think you could build a 'Stang from aftermarket fabrications without a single part being original (not even taking into consideration complete kit cars). I'd take that '74 Orange original Pinto over a car built from aftermarket fabrications any day.

Building a Pinto show car goes back to the very essence of the hobby. We won't forget that; but it's up to us to remind others around the hobby of that fact...lest we be doomed to "second class," nerd and ugly duckling status for good.

At any rate, based on their website the Volo museum looks like a pretty interesting vacation stop if you're in the Chicago area. I wouldn't know, because I've never been there, but looking over their website makes me want to go.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

78pinto

and your posting that here because...........we drive Pintos? You think they are Nerdy.....or ugly? You may have started out on the wrong foot here! >:(
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

volo auto museum

The Volo Auto Museum will host a Nerd Car & Ugly Duckling Car Show from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. at the museum, 27582 W. Volo Village Rd. Volo, IL 60073. It is a free outdoor event. See www.volocars.com or contact Joseph Lopez at 815-385-3644 for more information.