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1974 Ford Pinto

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

auto krafters weather stripping???

Started by waldo786, June 18, 2007, 08:59:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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mrpinto

I had ordered beltlines and door seals from them and got them no problem.

However, I ordered a winshield gasket on May 14 and still haven't got it yet. >:( They told me 21 days. And they haven't answered my last 2 emails.
1979 302 Pinto Custom
1971 460 Drag Pinto

Redeless1

Screwing up an order is one thing, but stealing my money and then getting an attitude with me is quite another. Sure, everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect- but stealing my money and copping an attitude with me because I complained is unforgivable. It is a good thing I am making this a go-fast car and not restoring it. If no one else has  resto parts for this car but them, I would sell the car. But, it is in decent shape, and mechanicals are available elsewhere. Turbochargers are plentiful!
When I am wronged in such an egregious manner, I hold a grudge- I NEVER FORGET, because life is too short to put up with people's B.S. :evil: 
1971 Mercury Montego "Cyclone" wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker 9
1972 Pinto Wagon 2.0 aspiring turbo car
68 Cougar 351W Toploader
78/79 Cougar
89 SSP Mustang Texas DPS
Because Different Is Good!

71hotrodpinto

Quote from: Cookieboy on July 06, 2007, 05:18:22 PM
so... this happened "a few years ago" and wasn't a recent experience. Good  ;D

sorry to hear of your bad experience in the past but they seem to have corrected any problems and are doing better now. I have placed 4 seperate orders and always experienced good service. That's a good thing for our little Pinto community as they are the only ones I know of or could find for the oh so important door and glass seals we all need so badly.



I second that.  Hey we can all relate to some issue at one time or another of getting screwed by some customer service rep or company. But as time goes by and they fix there problems with customer service reps etc then you can give them another chance. Or you can hold a grudge. Choice of course is yours. IMO Life is too short to waste being mad.

I myself bought a few things from them, Beltlines, door weather stripping, windshield gasket,and a couple of other things as well.
Never had a issue with them shipping. They shipped when they said they would.


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

Cookieboystoys

so... this happened "a few years ago" and wasn't a recent experience. Good  ;D

sorry to hear of your bad experience in the past but they seem to have corrected any problems and are doing better now. I have placed 4 seperate orders and always experienced good service. That's a good thing for our little Pinto community as they are the only ones I know of or could find for the oh so important door and glass seals we all need so badly.

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Redeless1

Quote from: blink77 on July 06, 2007, 01:10:34 PM
I THINK YOU ARE OVER REACTING.
How can you say that when you don't know my situation? This happened a few years ago with my Cougar. I placed a large order, which arrived with many parts omitted. Sure, time was a factor for my order- but inventory status and explanations about the missing parts were omitted by them as well. I called them, wanting a refund on the missing parts. The refund was only partially given by a surly customer disservice team. They then had the nerve to tell me I could no longer purchase from them- HA! as if I would. They never returned my balance- wasn't a whole lot of $$, but it is the principle.
Because of AutoCrappers, as I call them, I have found the body lines of the Yugo to be much more alluring- MAN, IS THAT DISTURBING!! 
1971 Mercury Montego "Cyclone" wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker 9
1972 Pinto Wagon 2.0 aspiring turbo car
68 Cougar 351W Toploader
78/79 Cougar
89 SSP Mustang Texas DPS
Because Different Is Good!

osiyo59

I ordered my door seals from AK and though it took over a month to get I was overall pleased with the transaction, Seals look good, and they should, They are made by Dennis Carpenter. I don't know if he sells them direct to the public but you can try.
1966 Mercury M100 Custom Cab 5.8L EFI/AOD
1973 Pinto Wagon Daily driver (For Sale in Classifieds)
1973 Pinto Squire 2.0EFI/Turbo

"Man is not FREE unless Government is LIMITED!" - President Ronald Reagan

Cookieboystoys

I too have had good luck w/Autocrafters

2 sets door gaskets
2 beltline trim
windshield gasket

I need to order the hatch glass gasket

all in all a good experience dealing w/them but would agree a little slow to ship if you're in a hurry. However as stated before they mostly drop ship and I have had to wait for the supplier to provide them w/the parts to ship. Happy to have them as a source for the parts they have... wouldn't hesitate to order from them again.

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

blink77

I THINK YOU ARE OVER REACTING. I ORDERED BELTLINE TRIM
AND DOOR SEALS. DIDN'T COME FOR A LONG TIME. FINALLY
3-4 WEEKS LATER I GOT THE BELTLINE TRIM. SHIPPING COST
FOR THAT ITEM ONLY.3-4 WEEKS LATER I GOT THE DOOR SEALS
NO ADDDITIONAL SHIPPING. THEY NEVER CHARGED MY CARD TILL
THEY SHIPPED.THEY JUST SELL THE STUFF, NOT MANUFACTURE IT.
THE DOOR SEALS ARE MADE BY DENNIS CARPENTER.REALLY NICE,BUT
I BET YOU CAN'T BUY FROM THERE FOR 100.00. IF YOU ARE IN A
BIG RUSH GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. OTHERWISE, THANK GOODNESS FOR
AUTO KRAFTERS.ALSO THANKS TO DENNIS CARPENTER, LEST WE FORGET.
JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH (I STOLE THAT FROM SOMEONE ELSE)
BILL

77turbopinto

Quote from: Redeless1 on July 06, 2007, 09:44:01 AM
Okay- I gotta do this- I WOULD NOT BUY A DAMN THING FROM AUTOKRAFTERS!!!! SCREWED UP MY ORDERS, SCREWED ME OUT OF MONEY, PISS POOR SERVICE. IF THEY WERE THE ONLY FORD PARTS SUPPLIER IN THE UNIVERSE, I WOULD BUY A YUGO TO RESTORE!!!!
Ahhhhhhh, thats better. I feel my blood pressure returning to normal after my combination stroke and mild coronary.
Bottom line- if no else has the parts I will do without. Never again will I deal with those bastards, and I will always tell as many people about them as possible.

Need details....

Billl
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Redeless1

Okay- I gotta do this- I WOULD NOT BUY A DAMN THING FROM AUTOKRAFTERS!!!! SCREWED UP MY ORDERS, SCREWED ME OUT OF MONEY, PISS POOR SERVICE. IF THEY WERE THE ONLY FORD PARTS SUPPLIER IN THE UNIVERSE, I WOULD BUY A YUGO TO RESTORE!!!!
Ahhhhhhh, thats better. I feel my blood pressure returning to normal after my combination stroke and mild coronary.
Bottom line- if no else has the parts I will do without. Never again will I deal with those bastards, and I will always tell as many people about them as possible.
1971 Mercury Montego "Cyclone" wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker 9
1972 Pinto Wagon 2.0 aspiring turbo car
68 Cougar 351W Toploader
78/79 Cougar
89 SSP Mustang Texas DPS
Because Different Is Good!

71hotrodpinto

Hello Krazi, Just go toward the bottome of there home page and type in "pinto" for the search words.
Youll then find all the stuff they have for us. Not much but some key stuff like windshield stripping, beltline window stripping and now door stripping. Even a few small NOS things.
Good luck
Robert


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

krazi

check ebay, sometimes they list items for a little less than retail price.

krazi
yeah, I'm Krazi!

waldo786

DOH! I tried that before, but apparently the dash in the number is necessary to find it...Oh well, Murphy's Law...

turbowagonman

I just checked, I found it under 1 min.
In the upper lefthand corner there is a place where you put the part number in. Just do that.

turbowagonman
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

waldo786

 :wow:  ??? I went looking at autokrafters.com for weather stripping, but I can't seem to find it.  I even searched the forum and found the part number listed in a previous discussion, which can be found here: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=57&topic=4922.0
Are they not selling the weatherstripping anymore, or am I just having trouble navigating their site??