Mini Classifieds

2.3 front sump oil pan
Date: 02/19/2017 03:24 pm
Wanted hood hinges
Date: 02/17/2020 05:30 pm
2.3 engine and other parts- Free
Date: 12/13/2016 10:25 am
instrument cluster,4sd trans crossmember,2.3 intake
Date: 08/26/2018 06:23 pm
Misc pinto parts 71-73 2.0
Date: 05/05/2020 11:56 pm
rear hatch back louvers

Date: 04/18/2017 12:44 pm
Automatic transmission
Date: 02/13/2021 02:52 pm
1979/80 Pinto needs to be saved
Date: 09/10/2018 10:41 pm
Clutch pedal needed
Date: 01/11/2024 06:31 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 642
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 209
  • Total: 209
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Bizzare shaving accident avoidance

Started by crazyhorse, January 29, 2007, 04:30:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

77turbopinto

Quote from: JELLO on February 18, 2007, 11:31:22 AM
CAN ANY BODY TELL ME HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO INSTALL AN INNER COOLER ON A 2.3 THAT IS NOT INTER COOLED, AND WHAT PARTS I WOULD NEED

A 2.3 or a 2.3T?

Don't waste you time unless your engine has a turbo. A turbo compresses air, when it does it makes the air hot, the I/C will cool it back down. A N/A (non-turbo) engine does not heat the air, so there is no need or benefit for an I/C.

If your car has a turbo the best bet is for a front mount (in front of the radiator) and just fabricate exhaust pipes and brackets as needed, As far as I know there are no "bolt-in" kits for this.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

JELLO

CAN ANY BODY TELL ME HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO INSTALL AN INNER COOLER ON A 2.3 THAT IS NOT INTER COOLED, AND WHAT PARTS I WOULD NEED

turbo toy

I really like "Buck Creek Gap", it's Hwy 80 between Marion NC. and the park way. If you want to run with the modded Miata's you need a turbo. It's really fairly simple and I promise you, you will love it. As stated earlier, you can do a turbo setup a lot cheaper than you can do the NA mods and have twice the HP. Maint. is next to zilch as long as you keep the boost reasonable.

77turbopinto

Quote from: crazyhorse on February 12, 2007, 05:08:55 PM
...I wanna run with the modded Miatas! Dang those little buggers are nimble...

Get a modded Miata.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

crazyhorse

Nope, not me.  :text_yb_warning: Videos will get you arrested at the speeds I travel on that road! :text_yb_warning:

I have fun there & a lot of stock 4wheelers have trouble keeping up with me, but I wanna run with the modded Miatas! Dang those little buggers are nimble!

Even with what I consider crazy speeds I get passed by sportbikes (aka crotch rockets) I know i don't have a prayer of holding them off, but I'd just as soon not hold them up!
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

douglasskemp

"Tail of the Dragon"?  I have a few videos I downloaded of a guy driving a later model fox Mustang 2.3t down that road.  Sure is fun to watch.  That wouldn't happen to be you would it?
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

crazyhorse

Weren't the Ranger 2.3's 140hp? I know they were EFI & the dual plug heads. I'd think it's achievable with a carb & still be streetable. I'm only after 1hp/cu-in. I'm after an old school torque monster. Right now I know I make most of my torque below 3k rpm. With the auto trans, I can hold it on the brake @ 2500. That translates into max power out of the corners.
I'm looking to have a "canyon carver" I've ordered a set of Wilwood slotted front brake discs & am working on an 8.8" rear end swap. That way I can get a bolt on rear disc conversion. I have, waiting in the wings, a wagon rear sway bar & already have Koni adjustable shocks on the car. Once I get the chassis fully sorted, I'll be looking @ engine mods. I don't need all that "go" without a TON of "whoa".
My "racetrack" of choice is a road called "The Tail Of The Dragon" US HWY 129 through Deal's Gap NC. 318 turns in 11 mi. To give you some idea of just how crooked this road is, it covers only 5.5 miles of straight line distance, with 11 miles of road. Those of you who are motorcyclists may have heard of it.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

77turbopinto

What extra maintenance? Yea, the install is a bit of a pain, but if you leave it stock (150ish HP, non-I/C) is is very durable.

130-140 from a N/A (carb-ed) 2.3 will cost more than a turbo swap and won't be all that street happy.

Just my $.02

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

DragonWagon

I agree with turbo toy, the 2.3 heads do not flow very well and need to be opened up a bit. Always thought it odd that the 2.0's flow better. Just remember when porting, the exhaust side can be mirror smooth, but keep the intake side a bit rough to aid air/fuel atomization. It doesn't hurt to cc the chambers after porting to make sure they are the same.
You'll need a fairly healthy cam to get your NA hp numbers as well. One of my favorite 2.3 street cams was a Crower 270-H Compu-Pro. It had a nice loping idle and good midrange torque. I doubt they make it any more. I've attached the specs for those interested. There are undoubtedly similar cams available.

1976 mpg Wagon. The start of it all.
1977 Cruising Wagon, to be turboed.
1979 glass hatchback. No motor atm.
1980 wagon parts car.

crazyhorse

Thanks Turbo Toy. I guess I'll be looking for a head to work on. I know a guy who's built the SNOT out of a Ranger 2.3 so I suppose I'll be handing it over to him for a port/polish job. I'l have him gasket match the head & I'll do the intake the same way.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

turbo toy

I think that with a decent intake,carb,cam,adjustable pulley,good ignition and header you have a good start,but head work is going to make the biggest difference.The 2.3 head needs attention.Cutting the head to get the compression uo to around 10:1 and 92 octane will help tremendously,but it really needs porting,especially on the exhaust side and in the bowls.Just mild porting in the bowls with a little radiusing and blending and a set of 1.89/1.59 valves and a good set of springs will give you the most HP for the money.I think this combo will give you the numbers you want and should let you run with the NA ricers.It's not going to be a world beater and you won't be able to run with the turbo cars,but it will definately make you respectable.Hope this helps.

crazyhorse

How much further do I need to go for 130hp?
I forgot to mention that I was going to get a veriner cam pulley.
My main goal for this project is to do sensible mods to up the HP & handling to take on the Honduh's the kids drive. All the while keeping it's daily driver usability, & reliability. Oh & I'm NOT gonna be doing any drag racing.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

turbo toy

Remember that shaving the head or decking the block on these motors retards the cam timing.If you cut it much you may need an adjustable cam pulley to get the cam timing correct.The Ranger roller cam won't give you any more HP.I don't think the mods you listed will give you the 130-140 HP you desire.Just my two cents.

crazyhorse

Many thanks earthquake!... now to get off my keyster & get to work on it!
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

earthquake

Correct,The 74 2.3 should have 9:1 static take off 60 thou you got 10:1
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

crazyhorse

Ok I'm guessing that .030 is safe & .060 is not, Being dyslexic I read that twice to make sure I didn't get it backwards LOL

That said, .030 will get me from 7.5:1 to 8.5:1 CR right?
Add in a holley 390 carb, Ranger roller cam, and header & I SHOULD get my magic 130-140 hp right?
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

earthquake

more than 30 thou will cause interference if the t belt breaks.but you can safely take 60 thou off,It will net you one full point of compression.
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

crazyhorse

OK now that I have your attention.. How much can I shave from a '74 2300 head safely. Mind you, I don't want to create an "interference" motor. I'd like to have a few thousandths cushion in case the T-belt breaks @ high RPM. I'm looking to increase my HP from the dismal stock 88 to 130-140. I'm all about a N/A motor, turbos require extra maintenance. If I'm not gonna boost it, then I need to put the squeeze to it another way.

Thanks for your help.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"