Mini Classifieds

Bumper, grill and fender wanted
Date: 12/24/2016 04:13 pm
Wanted 1973 Ford right fender
Date: 06/03/2017 08:50 pm
13" Style Steel Trim Rings

Date: 10/09/2020 10:35 pm
Wanted 1971-73 pinto 2.0 4 speed manual transmission
Date: 03/06/2019 06:40 pm
Pinto Parts Windows & Windshield

Date: 11/12/2020 08:28 pm
Odds and Ends 1976-77 Pinto Wagon

Date: 07/17/2019 05:23 pm
Mini Mark IV one of 2 delux lg. sunroof models
Date: 06/18/2018 03:47 pm
1980 Ford AM radio
Date: 12/22/2019 11:57 am
Alloy Harmonic Balancer

Date: 07/10/2020 12:17 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 748
  • Online ever: 2,670 (Yesterday at 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 697
  • Total: 697
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Hand Gernaded Transmission

Started by 72pintounleashed, July 30, 2006, 04:03:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pintoguy76

sweet another fellow pinto missourian :-D Springfield here.
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

77turbopinto

Kool.

Don't forget the stepped dowels.

Start thinking about a driveshaft too, the one from the 4spd car is shorter than one from a c3 car, and keep in mind that ones from cars with an 8" rear are shorter. I THINK wagons have the same shafts. This gives you up to 4 shafts to choose from, as well as ones from a fox body stang (like the one in my Pinto).

The #'s you posted are VERY high for these engines, and like TP72 said, you NEED to give full details when tossing around #'s like THAT (they tend to peg the BS meters, if you know what I mean). I am not saying they are wrong, but it is amazing how the ink on those dyno sheets will smear over time.

Go easy on that "new" tranny, like keep to 4 digit RPM power shifts.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

crazyhorse

Mind you, I'm not doubting you, or flaming you in any way. But WHY did you dump the clutch @ 11,500? Even a C-4 won't survive that. Putting in a trans will lead to U-joint failure, then axles etc. I'm fairly sure even most racing components won't handle the stresses of an 11,500rpm launch.

I think I speak for us all when I say we'd LOVE to see pics of an N/A  295hp 2.0
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

72pintounleashed

The car was fully built in 1985 it had a c4 automatic and 9 in ford with 456 ring and pinion they decided to dissemble the car because the half owner my unlce got married and his wife hates pintos and told him to get rid of it. My dad kept the engine till around 1992 when we moved to missouri and found a very sweet 1972 pinto compition orange one owner with a blown head gasket. We then put our motor in the car and drove it till about a year ago when the trans finaly let go which I knew it would I have been looking for a automatic bell housing to solve this problem because I know a c4 is stronger and should take the power when built properly. I have heard that a 2.3 has the same bolt pattern I wasnt sure is bell houing depth was the same.I am getting ready to put a 4 speed back in the car this weekend so I can atleast start driving it again I hate to see it sit. The dyno test were done in 1984 when they finally finished the motor after balancing and blue printing with the new carb set up. Granted I dont run Nitrous on the car everyday and in fact I dont really plan on using it anytime soon the car is plenty fun with out it. So Bill if a 2.3 automatic bell housing will work I thank you for your info please remember people I am only 25 soon to be 26 and this car is only about 10 years before my time but I love the pinto era and most of the work on this engine was done when I was only about 1 year old. I am basically taking a once great toy and trying to build it again and most people in missouri laugh at pintos or know nothing about them...

Srt

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

77turbopinto

Quote from: 72pintounleashed on July 30, 2006, 04:03:12 PM
Ok I am new to this forum but here goes anyway. I have recently aquired a 72 pinto street/strip set-up from my father. The enging is a 2.0 punched 60 over 12 1/2 to 1 compression steel crank forged rods dome top pistons everything that could be done to the motor in 1981. the car was fully built and raced a total of 5 times at a 1/8 each time then parked till my dad and uncle disassembled the car in 1991. I am now trying to get a new car together to have some fun with I have a new 9 in ford rear end narrowed and but the first time I took the car out and let the clutch out at 11,500 rpms 2nd gear went right out on the pavement so I have been looking for about 6 months to find a bell housing and no one seems to have one they have plenty for a 2.3 but none for a 2.0 if anyone has one or an idea where I can find one please email me or let me know the car is just setting until I find a bell housing. Thanks Tony...

I thought ALL Pinto's with a 2.3 used the lower holes on ALL the bells/trannies. Also, the 2.0's and the 2.3's have the same bolt pattern so you can use a 2.3 bell with stepped dowels. For 6 months no one told you that?

If 2nd gear hit the ground, why do you need just the bell?? Are you looking for a 4spd bell or an a/t bell? I would think a c4 would hold up better. If you are talking about a 2.3/c4 bell, please define your use of the word "plenty."

IF the engine has that much power AND you get a good amount of traction at the tires, you will be changing a stock tranny and/or bell VERY OFTEN.

What engine was in the car back then? If it was the same one, what was in the car for a tranny?

Why did they stop racing it? Bad tranny?

When was the dyno test done?

Did you ask the people with the dyno for help finding parts? Most places with dynos also build/repair cars and SHOULD be able to tell you something (like don't use a stock tranny, don't pop the clutch at 11,500...).

BTW: Why did you "let the clutch out" at 11,500?

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbopinto72

So, as long as your YELLING AT ME I will tell you this. YES, you need to be verry spacific when telling some of us you have a motor at the uppper limits of what that motor would possibly go. Yes, it is suggested that you let us know you are running NOS becouse it DOES make a big difference in how we can help you.A NOS motor will have a ton more torque than a N/A motor will have.and by the way, was the motor dynoed with the NOS?, just becouse you have a 100 shot does not mean it will produce 100 hp.More later
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

joecool85

Hard to believe, but I guess those numbers are possible.  You have to realize that not many people will believe you when you tell them you have 295hp on a N/A motor, never mind 395.  And with nitrous, its not really N/A anymore.
Life is what you make it.
http://www.thatraymond.com

72pintounleashed

 :nocool: Ok since so many of you need specIfics here..
N/A 2.0 Punched 60 Over
Steel Crank/ Wedge Cut
TRW 12 1/2:1 Dome Top Pistons
Roller 264 Dur.@.050 510 Intake/Exhaust Lift
Manley 1 3/4 Intake Valves
Manley 1 1/5 Exhaust Valves
Heads Been Milled .050
4 55mm Weber Carburetors
All Mallory Ignition
Taylor Wires
At the Crank Motor Puts Out 295 HP ON THE DYNO
WITH THE 100 SHOT OF N.O.S ITS 395 (DIDNT KNOW I HAD TO BE SO SPECIFIC TO GET SOME HELP SOLVING A SIMPLE TRANSMISSION PROBLEM) YES THERE IS MORE DONE TO THE ENGINE BUT I DONT HAVE TIME TO SIT AND GIVE ALL THE DETAILS AT THIS TIME...

78pinto

** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

turbopinto72

Quote from: 72pintounleashed on July 30, 2006, 09:24:13 PM
12,200 is Red Line!!! Long Beach Marine did all the block work. 395 hp at the crank on there dyno.
395 hp out of an N/A 2.0 :what: :what:, Um, HUH.............. ???
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

72pintounleashed

12,200 is Red Line!!! Long Beach Marine did all the block work. 395 hp at the crank on there dyno.

73pintogeek

A bad day workin` on my Pinto is better than a good day at work!

72pintounleashed

Ok I am new to this forum but here goes anyway. I have recently aquired a 72 pinto street/strip set-up from my father. The enging is a 2.0 punched 60 over 12 1/2 to 1 compression steel crank forged rods dome top pistons everything that could be done to the motor in 1981. the car was fully built and raced a total of 5 times at a 1/8 each time then parked till my dad and uncle disassembled the car in 1991. I am now trying to get a new car together to have some fun with I have a new 9 in ford rear end narrowed and but the first time I took the car out and let the clutch out at 11,500 rpms 2nd gear went right out on the pavement so I have been looking for about 6 months to find a bell housing and no one seems to have one they have plenty for a 2.3 but none for a 2.0 if anyone has one or an idea where I can find one please email me or let me know the car is just setting until I find a bell housing. Thanks Tony...