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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

pinto running too rich

Started by dholvrsn, July 27, 2006, 01:47:18 PM

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goodolboydws

Haven't checked in for a while.
Lugnut has some good things to say. I had forgotten that my '71 was itself originally a California then Arizona car, and in that era as now, Calif. cars would frequently have emission controlled engines with systems a year or 2 in advance of the 49 state models. Plus the Canadian cars are also frequently different.

You'd be well advised to check the VIN carefully and also find the state (or Province) of original registration of your car,  to at least have a better idea of what it started out having in the way of emission controls, so that IF you need parts, you will know what is supposed to be there and what isn't. And then getting a GOOD shop manual, (preferably the Ford factory manual), if you haven't already done so. They aren't all good. It helps to know the proper information as there may also be some minor changes elsewhere on the vehicle if it is a non-49 stater or a Canadian vehicle.

You asked "what is it about Pintos and gas tank issues?"

No USA car in that era was made with fuel lines  (or vacuum lines, coolant hoses, belts, tires, or basically any partly natural rubber part, and many of the more engineeered elastomeric compound rubber products too) that were INTENDED to last 20, or 30 years. (Many/most current cars still aren't.) All of the rubber lines in the entire car should have been replaced at least once by now, and probably many of them are still the original ones. 

Knowing this doesn't mean that you HAVE to run out and replace everything rubber right away, only that if you choose not to, that you shouldn't be surprised when this type of part eventually fails. (not if)

Out of self defense over the years, I've taken to replacing a lot of older engine and safety related parts such as v-belts, hoses, timing belts, brake lines, brake parts, shocks, tires, etc. as soon as I can get to them as part of a catch up/preventative maintenance program for any older or high mileage car that we own. I concentrate on the more critical rubber stuff and fluids as a first round go through.  Saves me a lot of time, money and hassle over the long haul by preventing breakdowns that could have been anticipated and by my not having to do or having someone else do parts replacement when the vehicle is AWAY from my garage. 



dholvrsn

Factory AC is installed. Working is another deal altogether.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

lugnut

Quote from: dholvrsn on August 02, 2006, 09:31:38 PM
Is this the solenoid on the firewall? One of the lines is plugged. Plus the plugs that started this all. The fuse for the idiot lights and emission was blown and since replaced. The carb is soaking in the vat waiting for the parts to come in.
Does the car have a/c? that looks like the solenoid that increases the idle when the air conditionong is turned on.

onefarmer

[quote ]

The carb is soaking in the vat waiting for the parts to come in.
[/quote]

Slosh it around in there some as it soaks. Rinse it out good and if it is still dirty in some places, put it in again. I just redid one a few months ago and it took a few soaks to clean it to my liking.

Keep us up to date on how it turns out.

dholvrsn

Is this the solenoid on the firewall? One of the lines is plugged. Plus the plugs that started this all. The fuse for the idiot lights and emission was blown and since replaced. The carb is soaking in the vat waiting for the parts to come in.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

lugnut

Quote from: onefarmer on July 28, 2006, 06:48:40 PM
Wow, haven't seen a O2 sensor on a Pinto yet. Not saying they didn't, just never seen one.

We probably see them more out here in California.  Beginning in 1977 or 78, the 2.3s w/ Calif. emissions got a crude feedback carb.  Recognizable by: an oxygen sensor in the exhaust manifold, a bunch of colored plastic vacuum lines in place of black rubber ones, a dual vacuum operated switch on the left inner fender, and next to it a solenoid-valve that should 'clatter' on and off about twice a second when the key is on, and an electronic module about 5" square that I have seen on a '78 model mounted next to the ignition module- but on my 79 CW, its under the dash- above the hi-beam button.
  I have had to become somewhat of an 'expert' on this thing, and I can tell you that it operates like goodoldboys said- there is a blue (iirc?) vacuum line that goes to the carb, and applies about 2 or 3 inches of vacuum to a diaphram that leans out the mixture. If there is no vacuum, it goes rich. This caused my car to fail emissions for CO. The carb. is a model 6500, I believe, which is the same as the normal 5200(?) except for the added 'lean out' valve.  Its actually a pretty good system when it works, and for its era.  The one in my old 78 cruising wagon used to get nearly 30MPG.
  I'm not sure if this is your problem or not dholvrsn, beacuse I don't think that even if disconnected it goes rich to the extreme you are seeing. Also, i don't know if the feedback carb (Ford called it the "TWC" System) was used nationwide in 1979, or if it ever was.
I hope I did not confuse you too much!
mike
 

dholvrsn

Found that a lot of the bad MPG problem was caused by a cracked and leaking fuel return hose back at the gas tank. Replaced both hoses there.

So what is it about Pintos and gas tank issues? :evil:

Got the carb off the parts pinto and am soaking it and will rebuild it at leisure.

'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

goodolboydws

Checking the primary and secondary jets as one farmer suggested is a very good idea.

So would be doing an engine compression and leakdown test to determine the overall efficiency of the basic engine, now BEFORE investing more time and effort in it.

Depending on how the air pump was plumbed into your engine originally, it may have been injecting air directly into the cylinder head on the downstream side of the exhaust valves, or further downstream along the system, which would promote more complete combustion in the exhaust, but in any case it would help somewhat with the smoky appearance of the exhaust simply by diluting the exhaust gases, even if a convertor was removed.

Check to see that there is at least a hose going from the valve cover to the air cleaner. (Some of the older cars had a separate line going from the crankcase to an oil vapor separator.) That would be for removing crankcase vapor and burning it.  (There may or may not be a one way PCV valve plumbed into this line.) If this line is NOT there and the valve cover is sealed the, engine will accumulate more of this internally, instead of it being burned.  Also with this line missing or plugged, some engines will not run smoothly until the idle mixture is richened significantly, as the vapor that is coming from the crankcase adds fuel to the mixture.  Try pulling the hose off with the engine running.  If the line is clear, usually that makes the engine run rougher. If not, the line or what it is attached to may be plugged. There should be some visible vapor coming out of the valve cover when you do this, but NOT much or any pressure. If there IS much pressure, that's another whole can of worms.

By the way, for your peace of mind, with the air pump and convertor removed, you will probably never be able to completely clean up the exhaust, either visually or in testing. After all that's what they are supposed to be doing, and if they weren't needed to pass the testing, you can BET that FORD would not have installed them.

If you're in an area that does NOT require exhaust testing, and the car is running decently, with decent mileage, and not using an excessive amount of oil, (using less than a quart per 500 miles or so is still considered acceptable with a high mileage engine) you may just want to let it go for now, after doing the various checks and tests mentioned in this thread.

And if it IS burning, not leaking, only a fair bit of oil (like somewhere between 400 and 1000 miles per quart), even though the compression test is good, checking the valve seals would be a reasonable thing to do. Even with an otherwise well-functioning engine, cracked/hardened valve stem seals alone can let this amount of oil through, especially if there is PRESSURE in the valve cover, which would be acting to help push the oil through the valve guides. With high rates of oil consumption past valve stem seals, a burned exhaust valve quickly becomes a high probability, so if they don't look good, replace them before it gets costly.   

onefarmer

Had another thought. Perhaps the previous owner had the carb apart and switched, knowingly or not, the primary and secondary jets. The secondary is bigger and would make it run rich.

If the car has a O2 sensor as has been suggested it would be in the exhaust manifold just before the down pipe. Should be able to see it fairly easy if it has one.

A feedback carb would have a couple wires going to it attached to a solenoid somewhere around the fuel bowl. Never seen one on a Pinto so can't tell ya exactly where. Just don't mistake it for the bowl vent that would be over in the corner of the top plate. There wold be a larger vacuum hose attached in the front of the bowl vent sol.

I think I'd just drop the other carb on it just to see how it runs.

dholvrsn

Okay, the smog pump and the catalyst are long gone by some unknown previous owner. It doesn't knock under acceleration. How do I kludge this through until that unknown future date when I score a 2.3 turbo to drop in there?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

goodolboydws

Uhhh, you may have the cart before the horse on this one.

From '75/76 on, the car should have a catalytic convertor, and an air pump, possibly also has an 02 sensor and a feedback carburetor too. If any of these is acting up, disabled, not working at all or missing, that could be the source of some of your symptoms.  It's worth checking before looking elsewhere, especially if an engine/car has over 100,000 miles, or on ANYTHING this old.  Convertors can get plugged up with cars just having been sitting around too long also, and electrical wiring acts up more with accumulating age.

Check the easier stuff first. 

Pull the 02 sensor and check it out. Then check the air pump.   

If yours DOES have an oxygen sensor (I don't remember if the '79 did, but I suspect that it does), and the 02 sensor isn't working properly, the engine management system is typically supposed to make an engine go to a richer mixture mode when this happens as a failsafe, so that the engine doesn't run too hot. The reasoning goes that even if the engine is then running rich, it will take longer for THAT condition to cause long term damage than if it runs too lean, which can cause damage in a hurry. And maybe someone will notice what is happening and fix it before it's too late.

For example, let's say that the 02 sensor is plugged up with carbon or the sensor wire isn't making good electrical contact.  Then the engine shifts to a richer running mode. If that is what happened, you may have noticed a decrease in fuel mileage from that point, and that's usually what people notice first, even before any performance issues.

Or, if it doesn't have properly working catalytic convertor and/or air pump and is just burning oil for example, it would tend to be running rich and the 02 sensor should be able to pick that condition up and try to correct for it. This MAY make an engine knock more evident under load, as the fuel mixture would be being leaned down to compensate for the burned oil passing through the sensor. While engine oil can be considered fuel, it doesn't burn at the same speed as gasoline, so some of it gets through the combustion chamber as unburned/partially burned and can form deposits on the plugs, 02 sensor, cat convertor, etc.

The "crusty" plugs, unless they are actually very sooty and/or oily down to the metal shell, may actually just be a "normal" accumulation of crud (from high mileage and them having not been changed or cleaned in too long a period of time), which is then being overlaid by something that started more recently. Like maybe from a bad set of plug wires or a cap/rotor problem, a weak coil, etc. causing a frequent miss.

The reason that I said a properly working convertor, is that any halfway working convertor will clean up the exhaust to the point that it would be difficult to impossible to see any smoke from oil burning, unless it was burning through oil at something like 200 miles or less per quart, and I think that you would have noticed and mentioned that.

My wife once had a 4 cylinder car with stuck oil control rings in 2 cylinders that was burning oil at the rate of 50 miles per quart and except on very fast take offs, (the car still RAN fine) there was NO evidence of smoke in the exhaust. There was a tiny bit of carbon in the tail pipe, but hardly noticible. Her plugs did load up quickly, but they were mostly wet carbon fouling.

dholvrsn

If the emissions control fuse is blown, will it run rich?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

onefarmer

Quote from: lugnut on July 28, 2006, 10:54:13 AM
Does your car have the feedback carb with an oxygen sensor on the exhaust manifold and an electronic module under the dash?

Wow, haven't seen a O2 sensor on a Pinto yet. Not saying they didn't, just never seen one.

dholvrsn

Where on the manifold would the sensor be and where under the dash would the module be and where on the carb does it feedback?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

lugnut

Does your car have the feedback carb with an oxygen sensor on the exhaust manifold and an electronic module under the dash?

onefarmer

Not sure if it would have all the same ports and vacumm hose hookups but it will fit. They are the same basic carb. Worth a try

dholvrsn

Thanks for the info!

BTW, would a '78 carb interchange with a '79. I got one on my '78 parts car.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

onefarmer

Unless someone opened up the jets the most likely is too high of fuel level. This could be caused by a misadjusted float level or a float that is contaminated and getting too heavy. Since both would require opening up the carb, I'd just get a kit and rebuild it. Floats are sold separately.

To properly rebuild a carb you need to soak it in a pail of carb cleaner. This will really clean it up. The spray type doesn't do the job.

dholvrsn

My Pinto seems to be running too rich and I have the black smoke, crusty plugs, and a second opinion to almost confirm this. What could be out of whack with the carburetor or smog control to cause this and how do I fix it? It's a '79 2.3 with an automatic.

This could explain a couple of bonehead repairs by the previous owners to fix this. One was removing the choke butterflies (which I still haven't replaced). The other is pulling the wire out of the idle dash-pot.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser