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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

car not running right help!!!!

Started by r4pinto, June 05, 2006, 06:30:56 PM

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r4pinto

Acting up again. I don't know why. It starts up ok & will start to drive ok but then falls flat on its face & wants to stall.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

BlueGoldPinto

My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

r4pinto

Got it all cleaned out & the carb back together. Changed the plugs & leaned it out a bit & the car fired right up. Runs great. Drove it around the block, which is more than I could say about it Sunday. I just gotta change the fuel filter a bit more often until I clean out the tank.

Thanks for everybodys help on getting my car back on the road. Atleast I know it was something I coud have done on the side of the road,& next time this happens I might just go ahead.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Pulled the carb off& tore it down to find nothing but rust & gunk in the jets. Got it all cleaned out so I'm gonna put it back together. Once the car runs low on fuel I'll pull the tank & clean it out to keep this from happening again.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

that's where I'll start then. BTW, the plugs are a dry carbon deposit type as opposed to an oily soot.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

BlueGoldPinto

Duh, I forgot to mention to repull your plugs and check the condition of them then. An oily plug looks different than a plug that is dirty from carbon, so that might give you an idea as to what is causing that. The mixture might not even be the problem. I would diefinatly pull the carb and clean it though, as a good start
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

BlueGoldPinto

Yeah, goodolboy is right about that. I would try cleaning the plugs, reinstalling them, and messing with the idler screw while the car is running. I THINK( but don't hold me ransome on this) that counterclockwise is for a richer mixture and clockwise is for a leaner mixture, but doing this with the car running will tell you for sure.
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

goodolboydws

Since the problem started SUDDENLY, the odds are very good that it ISN'T a mixture adjustment situation per se, (as the mixture screws don't tend to suddenly move on their own) but something more along the lines of something that has been mentioned previously.

Before you run out and buy new plugs consider this:

While fuel that doesn't burn completely WILL form sooty deposits on the spark plugs, that isn't the only cause of sooty plugs-not by a long shot.

They could also be sooty from an ignition problem-one that isn't always FIRING the plugs, an unrelated problem, such as oil consumption from leaky valve seals, or even fuel that will not BURN properly-even when supplied in the proper MIXTURE.  

Gotta go, the dogs are getting ready to call the ASPCA about their 2 hour late supper.

r4pinto

cool. glad to hear that. Thanx..

I thought the enrichment screw was seperate from the idle screw. The screw at the base of the carb right? if that's it what way do I turn it & how much to lean it out?
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

BlueGoldPinto

Yes. your old gaskets if you just replaced them should be fine
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

BlueGoldPinto

Did you try adjusting the idler screw? Doing that with the car running should help with the fuel mixture problem
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

r4pinto

Quote from: BlueGoldPinto on June 08, 2006, 08:31:49 PM
When you cleaned the carb, Did you clean all the jets? There are lso some really small aced portles and chambers in these carbs, that can easily get clogged with all sorts of junk. The rusty fuel you mentioned still brings me back to our 57. When took the top off the carp, it was full of rusty junk. The jets were totally clogged. Are you sure the accelorator pump is not leaking? The best thing to do without dropping the tank would be to completely clean out the carb, inside ond out, it might be helpful to have a diagram of your particualer carb, just to see how all flows. Make sure that all check balls are there, you know, and get an idea of what little passages could be clogged. You might even look into some new gaskets and seals, and check the fit of the carb to the intake manifold, it might have a vacuum leak, somewhere in between the spacer or something. Also, before reinstalling a clean carb, you might consider trying to start the car and let the pump flush out some of the bad, or rusty gas. You might also consider an inline filter. And check that your float level is within the specifications that it requires. Hope this helps!
The accelerator pump was leaking so I fixed that. still a problem. I rebuilt the carb previously so It has new gaskets & the like in it already, but I'm prolly gonna take the carb apart & flush out all the jets to make sure there's no debris in them. Should I replace the gaskets again after I do this or should I be able to reuse them? Not trying to be cheap, especially with a fuel system (I already had one car die to a fuel fire, so I am EXTRA careful) but I honestly don't know if the gaskets & parts would be reusable or not.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: goodolboydws on June 08, 2006, 08:29:03 PM
One other thing that someone else touched on.

It's possible that you may have something internally obstructing the exhaust system that allows a small airflow, but not a larger capacity flow. With a cat, they can get plugged easily, but cat free systems can get obstructed too.

I've seen a lot of partially crushed exhaust pipes, pieces of broken off and wedged gasket material, and even muffler baffles that have broken off and moved to block the exhaust flow INSIDE of the muffler, that I wouldn't be surprised if it even turned out to just be something simple like that.


ummm... I doubt it's that, & Only because of the nice crack & break at the bottom of the downpipe. Man, this thing is loud cuz of that. I will however check the muffler as I am gonna get the downpipe replaced asap.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Well, to throw some light on the subject I went ahead & pulled the spark plugs. The plugs appear to be carbon fouled up, so I now know the car is running rich. I'm gonna get a new set of plugs for it, but my question is how do I adjust the fuel misture on the carb? It's a 5200 Holley carb. Also my dad was just cutting the grass with the mower & he musta fixed the problem on it as it was working fine, so that validates that test. Found out it was a bad throttle spring, but that's irrelivent to the car problem. My point on that is that he had no problems with the engine cutting out or such, so that eliminates the gas.

Watching the choke was a good idea. I actually did that before & it was functioning properly.

p.s. please bear with my stupidity on this problem, as I know only what I learn here when it comes to carbs. I know efi & can fix it with one hand tied behind my back, but carbs stupify me.

Thanks for everyone's help as it is greatly appreciated. I try anything so I can both fix the car & learn at the same time.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

BlueGoldPinto

When you cleaned the carb, Did you clean all the jets? There are lso some really small aced portles and chambers in these carbs, that can easily get clogged with all sorts of junk. The rusty fuel you mentioned still brings me back to our 57. When took the top off the carp, it was full of rusty junk. The jets were totally clogged. Are you sure the accelorator pump is not leaking? The best thing to do without dropping the tank would be to completely clean out the carb, inside ond out, it might be helpful to have a diagram of your particualer carb, just to see how all flows. Make sure that all check balls are there, you know, and get an idea of what little passages could be clogged. You might even look into some new gaskets and seals, and check the fit of the carb to the intake manifold, it might have a vacuum leak, somewhere in between the spacer or something. Also, before reinstalling a clean carb, you might consider trying to start the car and let the pump flush out some of the bad, or rusty gas. You might also consider an inline filter. And check that your float level is within the specifications that it requires. Hope this helps!
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

goodolboydws

One other thing that someone else touched on.

It's possible that you may have something internally obstructing the exhaust system that allows a small airflow, but not a larger capacity flow. With a cat, they can get plugged easily, but cat free systems can get obstructed too.

I've seen a lot of partially crushed exhaust pipes, pieces of broken off and wedged gasket material, and even muffler baffles that have broken off and moved to block the exhaust flow INSIDE of the muffler, that I wouldn't be surprised if it even turned out to just be something simple like that.

goodolboydws

This has got to be frustrating,I know.

BUT,
when I suggested trying it in a mower, the expectation was that it would be in a
mower that WAS running right before you tried it. A trial in a poorly running one would not actually have accomplished anything valid...... Do you have another mower available to try running the gas through? Remember, what you need to do is try comparing how it acts in an engine when that engine is UNDER A HEAVY LOAD, (like your Pinto's when it's accelerating) not simply running.

Another set of fuel related possibilities that may not have been touched on (or tested for yet), is that the carb is actually already either running way too rich or too lean at idle speeds and when you add the additional gas from the acceleration circuit, it is either then SO rich that it falls on it's face, or if too lean, it is getting so much additional gas BEFORE it can get enough additional air to compensate for the too lean portion of the TOTAL mixture (starting with the idle circuit mixure and adding that from the acc. circuit),  that it does the same thing.

(One common too rich scenario:
There may be a piece of crud or rust stuck in the inlet valve seat area or the resiliant valve seat may be hardened/worn/grooved, or the needle itself is burred and hanging up inside the valve instead of sliding smoothly and any of those causes are allowing a continuous flow of gas into the carb, overfilling it., which results in an unstable, too rich idle mixture)

To see if the current idle mixture is very far off from the proper stochiometric (possibly misspelled) or most efficient range of approx. 14:1 (air:gasoline) try this. It doesn't require any special equipment, and the only cost is whatever gas is burned during the test.

Start the cold engine and once it's running, look to see that the choke plate/butterfly  is actually opening properly as the engine warms up.
If that's hanging up, it will be idling too rich once it warms up, but from improperly restricting the air, not from too much gas running through the carb.

If the choke opens properly, next try gradually restricting the airflow through the carb's throat with either your hand or something else that CAN'T POSSIBLY get sucked into the carb.

If the amount of gas that is running through the carb is actually ALREADY too much for the amount of air it's getting now, and the airflow ISN'T being impeded by a sticky choke
plate, the engine would tend to slow down when you manually restrict the airflow this way.

If on the other hand, the mixture is ALREADY TOO LEAN, the engine would tend to speed up when you manually restrict the airflow this way. 

In either case, if you find that the mixture IS off, at least you'll have a solid starting point and should be able to proceed from there.

r4pinto

no convertor, just a straight pipe. I bought the car like that.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Farmboy

    Matt, do you have a catalitic converter on your exhaust system, sometimes they get so filled up with junk there's no where for the exhaust to go, which means no power.
  Just a thought,
  Doug
  I do what the voices in my Pinto tell me to do




74 Pinto Wagon
71 Runabout (parts car)

r4pinto

well, I tried the gas in the mower & it didn't run any worse than it already does. (the mower) Also examined the fuel closer than I did before & it couldn't look any better than it did. At this point I'm convinced the gas is good. NO DIRT  :o I sprayed out the carb with some carb spray while it was on the car & also cleaned out the accelerator pump housing. I'm thinking the carb is possibly junk, as I had to replace a couple screws on the accelerator pump stripped aluminum) The pump did tighten up ok & no leaks were present. I'm just very confused.

I just want my car back on the road so badly. I need her back in storage so my dad can stop complaining about too many cars around.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

I can try it in the mower but it's half dead. gotta try something though.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

goodolboydws

How long after (in actual running time or in miles) you got the last fuel, was it that the problem started? If it was just a few minutes or a couple of miles, that would be about enough time for the entire fuel line and carb to be flushed of the previous fuel and replaced by what you had just gotten.

It may just be a coincidence, and sometimes things happen that way, but suspecting a problem with the gas, if it started VERY shortly afterwards seems to be the most logical place to start

Speaking of gas, it could possibly also be STALE gas that had lost a little octane by sitting too long. Or contamination of another kind, such as by having some diesel or kerosene mixed in it by accident. These sorts of things do happen occasionally.  And did you by any chance get the gas at a podunk or out of the way gas station that might not have a rapid turnover of fuel in their tanks and gets infrequent deliveries?

If you have enough containers to put gas in, maybe you could drain it as much as possible and then put in one or 2 gallons of KNOWN, good gas?

Or barring that, do you have a lawnmower that you could try running a small amount of the gas through to see how IT reacts to that fuel, to see if IT loses power under load?

r4pinto

I didnt think of checking the belt to se if all is well, so I'll do that, as well as checking the ignition timing.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

That was the first thing I tried after changing the pump & filter. No luck it still ran poorly even after letting it set a bit. I thought moisture myself since it was fine up until after the last fuel stop I made Sunday morning before I went to the fairgrounds. It ran fine until I stopped to remove a bad wiper blade off my car. Then I shut it down & it started acting wierd.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

goodolboydws

 Have you considered that you may have gotten water contaminated gas? Your description of how the engine is running, but dies easily and has no power,  jibes with
that. Adding a few bottles of HEET to the gas tank should eliminate that as a possibility.

We've had a few experiences with fuel tanks having atmospheric water condensation into the gas tank causing the same problem (mainly in vehicles that sit without being driven for long period of time), and the first time it happens in a vehicle you're driving, you'd swear that there is something major wrong with the ignition system or the fuel system.

BUT, because a couple of sheared teeth missing from a timing belt or a jumped timing chain could have moved the cam to crank timing far enough away from normal that the engine might run as you describe, a weak ignition (mostly if you have a points type ignition system), AND a distributor that has walked could all be doing the same thing, I'd double check the cam/crank timing first, and then the initial ignition timing, and the quality of spark you're getting, just to be sure nothing there has moved, or changed. 

r4pinto

The new pump IS good. I already did a volume check & it came out like it should. The car will actually start & run, just won't accelerate for crap when I touch the gas pedal even the slightest bit. That & te crap is getting past the filter & in the carb. That's why I want to clean the carb out off the car. I do plan on dropping the tank & cleaning it out when it's empty, but I've got a full tank of gas from where I filled up before I got on the freeway.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

goodolboydws

Ditto that last post on all points.

77turbopinto

If the car was running well before this, and you found gunk in the line, the LAST thing I would do is pull the carb. down. The filter is right before the carb. and SHOULD have kept the junk from the carb. It is worth a shot to put in a new filter, blow out the lines, and maybe drop the tank and clean it out. You don't always need a fancy fix with the tank; I have droped quite a few, rinsed them out and soved the problem.

Don't assume the "new" pump is good.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

r4pinto

Quote from: 77turbopinto on June 06, 2006, 07:59:23 PM
Did you change anything else?

I doubt the exhaust pipe would do that.
What do you have for fuel press. now?
Filter?
Start back with the basics, fuel, air, comp., timing.....
Bill
After I changed the filter at 11:30 pm after the car was off the tow truck I tried to start it, but nothing. I then pulled the pump off the next day & replaced the 4 month old pump & it would start but not run long. Got it to run but runs like crap when I rev it.

I took the accelerator pump off today  & rusty fuel poured out. I'm gonna pull the carb off & clean it out. I think the tank needs boiled out. the rust I think plugged the ports
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

BlueGoldPinto

It sounds like the accelorater pump too me. 57 ford did the same the before we replaced it....it bogged down while trying to rev it. Good Luck!
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)