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78 wagon instrument y
Date: 04/30/2018 07:41 pm
1972-1980 Pinto/Bobcat Wagon Drivers Side Tail Light OEM

Date: 04/20/2017 10:10 am
1972-1980 Pinto/Bobcat Wagon Drivers Side Tail Light OEM

Date: 04/20/2017 10:10 am
1974 Pinto Misc. moldings & parts

Date: 12/20/2016 10:47 pm
Wanted: automatic transmission shifter
Date: 07/21/2017 11:49 am
Pangra wanted
Date: 02/05/2017 01:58 pm
76 pinto sedan sbc/bbc project for sale $1700 obo

Date: 10/27/2018 03:30 pm
1973 Pangra gauge and tach panel

Date: 11/02/2019 10:25 am
pinto floor mats??

Date: 01/11/2017 07:27 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1976 2.3L Wagon 4 speed Manual (MPG version)

Started by Nudemaple, April 23, 2019, 09:16:23 PM

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Nudemaple

Thanks Blaine. I did write to Burton explaining the issue and asking them to narrow down what I need and what page I can order them from but they haven't responded. I might have to spend a lot of time on their site and figure it out myself...but I did figure out that they call it "rocket".

pinto_one

The lose shifter nylon screw in part does wear and also the saddle that the fork goes on the linkage wears also , you can by a new shifter from burton power uk , the trans mission is a ford type "E"  ( they call it a rocket over there )  they have both the newer quick shifter and the saddle along with the gaskets and other idems you may need ,  I have brought quite a few parts from them for my 2.8 V6 ,  check it out , , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

LongTimeFordMan

Well the nylon bushing was used to serve as a sacrificial replaceable part to prevent possible metal to metal wear to the more expensive shifter mechanism so wear is expected and very common.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

It all is sound advice you have gotten. FYI over the years a number of people have discussed the nylon bushing as a cause for a sloppy shifter.

LongTimeFordMan

You re welcome..

In the meantime, do look at the grommet..
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Nudemaple

Thank you all for your ideas. I've been looking around and waiting for responses from some of these sites you mentioned. Specifically the bearingparts site from the UK. If I have any updates I'll post here. Thanks again.

LongTimeFordMan

The spring is the way to go since i dont think the rubber gromets areavailable any more and not sure  if you could even install them since the shift lever has a big rubber damper midway.

Also.. check to make sure that there is a circlip at the top of the grommet fitted into the groove in the shift lever. If there isnt one, the grommet wont have aywhere to seat to push up on the lever.

racer walsh sells a spring shifter for $175.

But check out the mod in the links. A spring should only cost a few dollars and you can select one that has the tension you like and cut or stretch it to get it like you want it.

And it wont wear out.

Also you dont need to reinstall the rubber boot..

The saddle is available on amazon or ebay for $10-20

And a jeep CJ uses a similar one for about $8

Heres a link with part numbers for the jeep unit cor about $2

https://www.morris4x4center.com/shift-rod-plastic-bushing-8127490.html

Not sure where this company is located but there are part numbers so try your local jeep dealers your local.jeep.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Nudemaple

Yes I did see the links to the spring mod. And, correct in that I don't have to push down to get into reverse...so at the very least it's the grommet. Too bad a kit with grommet and saddle bushing isn't easily found for these older models. I think I came across some parts for Ranger shifters. Maybe the photo that was attached in the other thread has individual part nos. that I can dicipher.

LongTimeFordMan

If the transmission is installed in the car you can easily check the grommet and retaining circlip by removing the screws that hold down the shifter boot and looking at the grommet.

If you can move the shift LEVER up and down round and round a lot, and the rubber looks deterriorated, chances are its just the grommet.

The gromet is a sort of unique method ford used to replace a spring and unless your mechanic has had experience with pintos, he probably wouldnt suspect a worn or deterriorated grommet as the problem and mis diagnose the problem.

He may also be referring to the nylon bushing that the shift LEVER pivots in, thinking it was bad when it could just be a bad grommet.

Or the nylon bushing may be bad.

The rubber grommet holds the shift LEVER up to serve as a reverse lockout so that to.shift into reverse you need to press down on the LEVER then left and forward.

If you can engage reverse without pressing down on the LEVER, then the grommet is bad.

Check out the link about replacing the grommet with a spring..

There is also a small nylon "SADDLE" bushing inside the tailshaft where the shift LEVER goes that fits between the shift LEVER and the slot in the RAIL that wears out and can cause looseness.

See photos in the links above

Excessive play side to side front to back is caused by a worn or missing "SADDLE" bushing where the LEVER AND RAIL connect.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Nudemaple

Unfortunately I was not in the shop when the entire transmission was removed and placed on the ground. I did take several photos but none close up where the lever goes into the extension housing BUT you can see from the photo of the entire tranny and extension housing that the hole seems to have nothing in it and I don't recall seeing the actual shifter rod nearby. I've sent out emails to the folks you recommended.

LongTimeFordMan

As i mentioned.. I dont think the Shifter RAIL has a seal.. it is completely contained witbin the transmission case or the tailshaft..

It also rides in borings in the cast iron case and doesnt have bushings..

See the pix in the article i linked to above with the top plate removed.

The only way you could determine if the shift RAIL had excessive vertical play would be to remove the top plate of the trnsmission.


Did you check the rubber grommet to see if it was worn

Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Nudemaple

We did end up ordering the throwout bearing from Autozone and it was $35.99. I'm seeing now the Duralast Clutch kit you speak of for $97.99 and do see the beefier TO bearing in the photo. I ordered the Luk from Amazon for about $89 but as I said it came with a TO bearing that looked nothing like what should have been in there. This is not a daily driver so I'm hopeful that the Luk set up will last at least 5000 miles.

Regarding the seal I'm looking for, it is not an input or output shaft seal. It is a SHIFT SHAFT SEAL for the shifter. It might be a kit actually with a ring to keep the seal in the correct vertical position. I'm waiting for Timken, SKF and National to respond. If it's not a FOG, then it's a 4 speed manual TREMEC, SROD?????

I'm attaching some photos but not of the area where the shifters goes. I forgot to get a detailed photo of that. The extension housing clearly shows 75ET 7A039 AB and the tranny says 77 ET 7006 AA. So although the years don't match, it appears both are ET or European? Correct?


Wittsend

As mentioned the FOG transmission was used in the Pinto/Bobcat and MAYBE the Capri. The Automatic transmission were used in a LOT of Ford cars for a LOT of years. That is why those seals are more plentiful.

I put a Luk clutch in my old Mazda 323. From reports it seemed a good product. And for the two years/15,000 additional miles I had the car I had no issues. My recollection was that the throwout bearing and pilot bearing were from Japan, the disc Mexico, the pressure plate South Africa and the alignment tool from the USA. I believe it was a $150 kit I got off Ebay for $80 shipped.

LongTimeFordMan

Check out autozone..

They have a complete correct kit, clutch, pressure plate, to bearing  fo about $100.

When i got my 73 wagon the previous owner put in a LUK kit.. The TO bearing failed after 3000 miles..

Its a cheep stampred sheet metal case.

The  Autozone oem TO bearing  is cast machined steel

As.for the trans seal.. are you sure that the trans is a type e FOG and not a later model used in the pinto/ mustang ii?

Its my understanding that the type e FOG was only used with the 2.0 engine..

As for the vertical shifter movement, there are 2 parts to the external shifter mechanism, the shift LEVER that is vertical, pivots in a nylon bushing that screws into the extension housing and comes up thru the floor with the knob on top. The shift LEVER   is tensioned to rise up to lock out reverse by a large rubber grommet that acts like a spring. It is located just above the screw in nylon nut and is secured at the top  by a circlip around the shaft of the shift lever..

If the rubber gromet is worn or missing or the circlip above it   is missing, the shift LEVER will drop downward creating a lot of vertical "play".

The actual shifter RAIL Is horizontal, extends from the shift LEVER at the rear, into the rear of the transmission case and engages the shift FORKS inside the transmission case, It has a slot at the rear that the bottom of the shift LEVER fits into. The RAIL only moves front to back horizontally and rotates slightly so there is very little stress on it.. so it is unlikely that the shifter RAIL bushings or seals are worn. Even so, wear on the bushings  would not show up at the LEVER.

Because  all of the shifting is accomplished by moving and rotating the one integral rail at the top, thetransmission is referred to as a "single rail" as opposed to the ones with shift levers extending from side of the transmission.

Vertical play  at the LEVER is usually the result of a worn or mssing rubber grommet or circlip

Here is a pic of a reasonably healthy gromet installed on the shift LEVER if yours is missing, worn or torn the vertical looseness is probably caused by the gromet.

There is a conversion mod that replaces the rubber grommet with a spring..

Heres a link to another post that may help

http://www.fordpinto.com/general-help/transmission-for-1980-ford-pinto/

Heres a post dealing withe the gromet and mod.

http://www.fordpinto.com/general-help/4spd-shifter/


If it is the early type e,  and you do need bushings or seals, try contacting Taylor race engineering in Plano,TX

They build racing transmissions for the 2.0 and have a lot of parts.

Ot try Burton Power. Or Racer Walsh
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Nudemaple

Got to love these head scratching, hair pulling situations. You learn so much when you baby a classic to health. The clutch went out on my wagon. My mechanic was pretty sure the tranny was ok, so I ordered a Luk Repset kit. I also ordered a new cable and a refurb flywheel just in case. I already had a new starter and motor and tranny mounts for future installation, so it would be a rather large job for him.

The car goes on the lift, open up everything and discover a crack in the upper facing portion of the bell housing and things began to make sense. Two weeks prior, I hit a pot hole and heard a rattle. The Luk Repset included the wrong throwout bearing, so we had to purchase the correct one, which delayed the work by a full day. Meanwhile, the bell housing was getting a weld job and input and output shaft seals were ordered. Disappointed in Luk. They appear to have their shizod together based on all the research I did ahead of time. Amazon credited me cause I complained. The rest of the clutch kit worked fine. I returned the flywheel and cable cause they were not needed. The starter and mounts went in with no problem.

The work dragged out for nearly a week due to other cars needing attention in his shop so unfortunately we never got around to the severe vertical play issue in the shifter. He said I should look for a "shaft shift seal" online and the next time I bring the car in he can install it. I can certainly live with the play in the shifter and I know that he'll have to drop the tranny all over again to install the shift seal BUT the search for the mysterious "shift shaft seal" has driven me CRAZY.

The FOG 4 speed transmission has very limited parts available. I've researched exhaustively dozens of online sources PLUS sending emails to Timken, SKF and National all of whom make shift shaft seals for automatic transmissions and I'm awaiting their response.  I know there was a TREMEC 4 speed manual transmission in 60's Ford's but those seals can't compatible with FOG. Or are they? I'm not understanding why there are seals available for automatic Pinto's but not for the Pinto FOG. I even looked for Bobcat and other 70's cars with FOG RWD 4 speed trannies. I'm wondering if the automatic shift shaft seals that are so easily found are also usable on the FOG manual shifter BUT nowhere is it written that they use the same seal. After all were talking about a seal not an entire set of synchros and gears.

I've come up with SKF 5510, Timken 313156 and National 312518 all as possibilities but have no confirmation that any of those will work on the FOG tranny. Naturally, I won't have him open the tranny to install a seal I can't find or doesn't even exist BUT this has me baffled and I'm missing something here but need other opinions and revelations. Any ideas, resources, help, suggestions? Thanks for listening fellas. Looking forward to your thoughts. gus