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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Tire Diameter - Rear Gear - Transmisson to MPH

Started by Benton2840, March 14, 2019, 09:55:51 PM

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Wittsend


Quote from: redcaddy on April 25, 2019, 05:48:34 PM
I can see I've pissed in my corn flakes on this board, SO, I'll pick up my tool box and move along. The parts I need for my street toy are out there...


No, I would say not (referring to the bold). It is just when someone presents a radical idea it takes time to grasp everything involved. I went back through the posts and it did not appear anyone spoke derogatorily. Befuddled - yes. But it is a learning process and things needed to be understood. We were asked if we had comments and 2.39 gears to prevent wheelstanding was an emphasis. That is something I had never had proposed before.


I myself invested well over an hour before my last post searching the internet and enlightening myself on the Cadillac engines displacement and weight. I did so for the purpose of understanding its aspects and potential.  When your Cadillac powered Pinto is done I'd actually appreciate seeing the end results. It was never my intention to tell you you couldn't do it, rather it was that it seemed to have significant weight/fitment issues to overcome.


And with that, I wish you the best in your endeavor.

redcaddy

Hi,
I have no desire to wee in the wind, or split hairs. It does indeed take olds pistons, custom rods and a welded  offset ground crank, along with a .120 pass with a boring bar, to get 769 CuIn. but it has been done, many times, There has even been big stroker's built for LSR cars, successfully.

Just pulling the cast iron intake manifold puts the caddy within reach of the SBC weight.

I know you guys are trying to keep the Pinto alive, more power to ya. I fell in love with the Pinto/Vega size rigs when I discovered that light weight and gobs of torque makes for a fun ride. Bob Glidden proved the concept.

Again, not trying to stir the pot or pic nits. For a long time, I thought the big Caddy's were only useful in pick up tow rigs. (and they still are) In a HP to Weight ratio numbers crunching battle the cad's look a bit weak against the SBF/SBC kids. However, horsepower is a calculation, Torque does the work. Lift the wheel speed numbers, with short gears, and fun things start to happen. The whole is MUCH more than the sum of the parts.

When my RED embarrassed too many door cars in the bracket wars, the whiners protested me out of foot brake, as a "center steer" car, (They could put the driver in the center of a Malibu, to see the tree better, but I didn't have a left seat to sit in, so I wasn't allowed to play) I just went on to own local super pro and index classes. They tried to protest me out of super pro because I wasn't running a box and throttle stop...(My RED, trailer, tow rig  and spares is on Craig's list, looking for a new home.)

I can see I've pissed in my corn flakes on this board, SO, I'll pick up my tool box and move along. The parts I need for my street toy are out there...

I wish all you guys the best of luck in your endeavors, C-ya

Paul
If it turns $$$$$ into smoke and noise, I'm there

Wittsend

I think some of us here were taken by surprise that such a physically large engine..., and heavy..., compared to a sub 500 pound SBF would be of consideration in a diminutive Pinto. As it is there is often debate here as to the practicality of a lighter weight SBF - VS - an even lighter Turbo 2.3. A high torque, low numerical gearing car is certainly a different concept for racing, but if you enjoy the challenge so be it. As to a one piece front end..., maybe someone has a lead??? Most of the dialogue here is to keep stock Pinto's on the road with a small few SBF V-8 and Turbo 2.3 people also.  When done I think many are curious to see pictures. Certainly it is going to be unique.


For clarity of understanding regarding what was said:


"The 472/500 Cad engine was designed by the same guy that drew the 455 Olds motor. the 500 Cad was much lighter, about 40 lbs, than a SBC in stock trim, and could be built to double the displacement, easily"


What I'm not understanding is how the Cadillac engine comes out 40 pounds light than a "SBC" (small block Chevy). The listed weight for the Cadillac is 625 pounds. The SBC is listed at 575 pounds. So, somewhere 90 pounds has to come off the Cadillac engine to get it 40 pounds lighter that a SBC. I realize you use the term  "SBC in stock trim" but to be fair if say..., the intake on the Cadillac was changed to aluminum then the weight comparison should be with a SBC having a likewise alteration. These are obviously "Published" numbers but light or heavy likely properly divided by engine. Also see the attachment of a Cadillac engine in Dyno trim weighting in at 777 pounds. Reeves1 estimate between 700-800 pounds seems accurate.


The SBC engine came stock in size up to 400 CID. To get a the Cadillac engine to double that would mean 800 CID. The largest Cadillac engine displacement modification I could find was 541 CID and that was with a significant overbore (.075) and an offset ground 1/4" stoker crank. There was the mid 50's 265 SBC and double that is 530 CID but again a fair comparison would to the full spectrum of SBC offerings (including the 400 SBC).




redcaddy

wHOOOOOO WEEEEEEE. although I'm impressed with all the replys, Every body take a breath and I'll fill in a few facts.
My "new to me" Pinto is a full on, tube frame pro stocker, built in the mid 70's. It's a close clone of the one Glidden campaigned in '72 - '73 (his was ladder bar rear, mine is 4 bar, with an upgraded halo, funny car cage) Mustang II front with aeroquip hat's and calipers. Worked over upper and lower "A" arms and adj. coil over shocks.

My intent is to pro street this old war horse and drive it 'till one of us can't do it any more.


The Cad motor I have in hand is the one I built to drop in a 225" W/B rear engine dragster, (1987 Richard Earl top alcohol car, dumbed down for fast brackets. (My home track was NHRA and ran a wide open bracket operation) First season, ran 10.00 flat in fast footbrake. moved up to super pro, without a box or throttle stop, thumped the suspended chassis guy's, and door cars, eating their injected 502's hangin' around the 9.90,s deadly consistent. An average night's work was  10.101, 10.103, 10.102, 10.100, 10.102, get paid.

The 472/500 Cad engine was designed by the same guy that drew the 455 Olds motor. the 500 Cad was much lighter, about 40 lbs, than a SBC in stock trim, and could be built to double the displacement, easily

Most engine dyno's can't accurately measure the horsepower because of the massive torque at low RPM. This one showed over 500 lbft of torque @1400 RPM. The torque curve is straight from 1100 RPM to valve float at around 5100 RPM. It really pulls much like a diesel. After all, this engine was built to drag a 7000 Lb around, smartly,quietly and smoothly. Published HP numbers were barely over 250 and the insurance companies and smog junk kept them from ever reaching their potential on the street and they were gone from the option list by 1976.

A lot of 502 and 572 BBC guys like to brag about big torque, mine, mildly built, will double the numbers they brag about.

I use the TH-400 because it was designed to stand up to the torque, (like the TH425 transaxle)

By the third season, I built a TH350, to gain back almost 60 lbs and a ton of parasitic loss horsepower. I rather enjoy blowing past a door car, running 130 MPH in the lights, at 165, with the 2.39 gears.

The weakest link in the big Cad, is the valve train. Anything much over 4900 RPM's they start breaking things, although newer, tougher parts exist, they are a bit pricey and not really necessary for the track, or the street.

I think the Pinto and the Bad Cad are gonna be a good match, I only posted to point out what gear selection can add or detract from performance.

I joined this board to get help finding body parts and, maybe to make a few meets for burnout's and such. I didn't mean to steal the thunder from some very impressive unibody cars.

Right now I'm searching for a one piece 'glass front end, Pinto or Bobcat. Any leads?

Thanks for your time,
Paul

 







If it turns $$$$$ into smoke and noise, I'm there

pinto_one

My comment would have to agree with Wittsend and Reeves1 , carrying almost or better than a half ton on the pinto front end will not have to worry about wheel standing it ,  a 500ci caddy engine along with trans is taking up a huge space in the engine compartment , plus that engine has not been made in years and performance parts may be hard to find , unless you have the engine and want to do somthing with it , me I would use a 3.5 ecoboost engine out of a f 150 or a wrecked raptor , that less than 300 lb engine might make more tourqe than the caddy engine and can make over 500 hp stock with a good tune , with that light weight you may (will) have to have wheelie bars installed , but it just an idea for you to check out , as for me I would have to win the lottery for my pinto build ,,  (buying a new Tesla P100D and put the drivetrain in my pinto wagon , 9 second 1/4 times with 4wd )   
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Wittsend

Quote from: Reeves1 on April 24, 2019, 06:04:05 AM
Combo is over 700 lbs with add ons you'll be well over 800 lbs......added to the front end !

I was thinking similarly. That is a LOT of weight hanging out in the front. I'd think the tires would break loose before the front end lifted. I never heard of going to 2.39 gears just to prevent wheel standing.

My experience with my Datsun 510 was that with 3.90 gears and 215-50-13" tires the RPM's came up so fast (I was shifting into 3rd gear before crossing an intersection) there was hardly a perception of torque.  It was very similar to starting off on a 10 speed bike in 1st gear going down hill. When I went to 3.36 gears the torque actually became noticeable because it was being effective. Basically what I'm saying is gear ratio is torque multiplication but you can actually lessen the effect of the torque (because RPM's spool up too fast) to lift the front end by going to something like a 5.13 or numerically higher ratio. Every situation is different so this is an example not hard facts.

Obviously there is a "sweet spot" based on a cars weight the tire/gearing and the engine torque characteristic s. That sweet spot is where one would most likely achieve wheelstanding. But, I doubt with 800 pounds up front the greater issue won't be tire spin at the rear then lifting at the front.

2.39 gears would make more sense if the goal was to get any kind of gas mileage out of the huge motor. But, even that said, my Studebaker (350 Chevy, 700R4, 3.07 rear gears, 225-60-16 tire) is at something near 1,600 RPM at 65 MPH. Gearing like 2.39 would probably drop the RPM's to about 1,200 RPM at 65 MPH, not much above an idle. If this is truly a Pro Street car 2.39 gears are counter intuitive to that purpose of a car designed to go a 1/4 mile as quick as possible.

The bottom line is that using gear ratios to prevent wheelstanding rather than proper chassis management is not a good approach.

Reeves1

Quote from: redcaddy on April 20, 2019, 11:56:39 AM
Yep, My '72 Pro Street Pinto barn find is set up with a Ford 9 inch, 4 link, Detroit locker, 15 X 15 x 34 rear tires. Dropping in a 500 CuIn Caddy torque monster, TH-400
thinking about a 2:39 or shorter gear to lower the wheel stands. Any comments?

Thanks, Paul

Combo is over 700 lbs with add ons you'll be well over 800 lbs......added to the front end !

redcaddy

Yep, My '72 Pro Street Pinto barn find is set up with a Ford 9 inch, 4 link, Detroit locker, 15 X 15 x 34 rear tires. Dropping in a 500 CuIn Caddy torque monster, TH-400
thinking about a 2:39 or shorter gear to lower the wheel stands. Any comments?

Thanks, Paul
If it turns $$$$$ into smoke and noise, I'm there

Wittsend

I'll add that it is nice to see someone who grasps the fact the the TIRE DIAMETER and the REAR AXLE RATIO go hand in hand regarding the final drive output. Changing the tire size is the same as changing the rear ratio and visa versa.

What I wish there was a Standard for (forgive me this is probably the 101st time I've mentioned it) something like engine RPM's per 100 feet, or mile or whatever.  That way one could factor the tire size, the rear axle ratio, engine torque in relation to RPM etc.. This could be judged against a color coded chart that illustrated a sweet spot and the range of "acceptable." Perhaps one of the computer dyno programs does that already???

This way the person with a 2.79 rear ratio and 16" tires might understand why their car bogs and the person with a 4.56 rear ratio and 13" tires is screaming down the highway at 4,500 RPM. The cart would illustrate how far from the sweet spot they are.

cossiepinto

This little gem is invaluable when calculating gear ratio/tire diameter/speed at "X" rpms/etc.  I had one made by Autolite back in the day, but must have given it away at some point.  I had put Stewart-Warner gauges in my '70 Boss 302 years ago and had dispensed with the speedometer.  Centered on the dash was a tach, so I needed to calculate speeds at given rpms so I could avoid getting tickets.  Never did I ever get a ticket for speeding by mistake.  Take a look at this thing.  It's small, portable, requires no batteries, etc.  Come to think of it, I probably gave the calculator to the buyer when I sold the car.

https://www.markwilliams.com/cal.html

There are others out there, too.  This one is $3.00.  A great little tool.

Benton2840

On one of my bored days I played a little Excel spread sheet what if's.  Its based on a Ford 6r80 automatic, 3.40 rear gearset and various tire diameters. Based on RPM what would the speed in each gear be.


In the spread sheet a person can change any value ( gear - tire - ratio's - rpm) and instantly see the results.


I'd post the Excel File if it allowed.