Mini Classifieds

1980 pinto/bobcat floors
Date: 07/24/2018 08:11 pm
Interior Parts
Date: 08/07/2017 03:59 pm
1971-73 2.0 motor moiunts
Date: 05/17/2024 09:18 pm
1974 Ford Pinto

Date: 10/16/2017 10:45 am
1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
Date: 10/10/2019 10:02 pm
windshield
Date: 04/14/2018 08:53 pm
1972 Pinto SCCA BS race car

Date: 10/23/2018 04:01 pm
1973 Pinto Runabout

Date: 03/25/2019 09:02 pm
SEARCHING HOPELESSLY
Date: 02/02/2017 07:21 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,895
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,581
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 1,166
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 1056
  • Total: 1056
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

new here my first pinto

Started by FordPrincess, June 29, 2005, 11:04:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

skrach

hey fordprincess, do you need any wood paneling? cause i have a guy selling some for 30 bux but its for the rear panel
1971 Ford Pinto Sedan. Original CA Car. Root Beer Brown. but wont be that color for long. Tired of the poop brown reputation. haha

Krstone21

shoot, well if you hear anyone wanting the runabout model let me know

sagesunrise

Oh bummer. I might've known someone who might be interested in purchasing a Washington state pinto, but he wants a trunk model.
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

Krstone21


sagesunrise

Krstone21,
Is your '73 a trunk or hatchback model?
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

Krstone21

Well, I took the carb off and cleaned it up real good with carb cleaner and it works great now, the car is amazing. You know of anyone interested in buying a 1973 Pinto Runabout? I might be looking to sell it soon as i get her cleaned up a little more.


sagesunrise

You can always put the original carb back on. I am sure there is one for sale somewhere on the forum. Since you already have one on the car, you can rebuild the original (not too tough, I've done it several times-thus why I always have carb trouble :D) and only 4 nuts hold it on! My experience with my 2.0 is constant carb work. I have an old 2.3 that I used to drive and NEVER had any carb trouble. I think I just have a fussy car. ;)
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

Krstone21

If carb trouble is going to be it's personality i'm not sure if I want to deal with it. I need to get it off and see if I can find a brand or numbers or anything, whoever had it before me put an aftermarket carb on it so we'll see if i can even get a kit for it. The rust is really going to be a problem though, i didn't want to put too much money into it right now but maybe i can get a cheap macco paint job on it. At this point once i get it running I think i'm just going to try to sell it and make a profit on it. I only paid $100 for it so i'm thinking quite a bit of profit.

sagesunrise

Hey Krstone21
Sounds like you have yourself a pretty normal Washington Pinto! Well, normal for WA cause of the rust, but normal pinto all around with your carb trouble. Sheesh, I have had my pinto going on 20 years and my carb still hates me! It seems the carbs just never want to do what you tell them. Gives the car personality I guess!
Tiffany
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

Krstone21

hey princess, i'm about as new to the site as you are and even newer to Pinto's. I'm a 21 year old male from Washington. Just got my first, 1973 Ford Pinto Runabout. I found it in an old car lot in a small Central Washington town. Offered the guy $100 for it and he took it. Needs some carb work but other than that it sounds great, quite a bit of rust on it though.

skrach

Welcome! its nice to see people my age getting into pintos too... i am 20   i have a 1971 sedan.    welcome to the site. if you need any help let me know.
1971 Ford Pinto Sedan. Original CA Car. Root Beer Brown. but wont be that color for long. Tired of the poop brown reputation. haha

bigh4th

Minus the wood grain, that wagon is a dead ringer for the 79 wagon my folks had when i was a little kid.  2.3 with a c3 automatic.  Got it in 83. That car went through 3 drivers, 1 engine and finaly had the transmission go out in 1994 with over 370,000 on it.   I remember sitting in the back seat at a Wendy's drive through playing around when I found a $10 bill between the back seat and the metal plate that folds down. 

Anyways, Nice wagon!  And why can't I find any girls who like pintos?

-Harry

FordPrincess

I just picked up a 79 wagon this weekend. My car addiction is getting bad, I gotta stop collecting lol. This makes 7 cars! I got 3 Mavericks 2 Comets and now 2 Pintos.
Chrissy

renton481

Nice woody you got there, Princess.

I've got a 79 wagon and it's got a manual tranny and it's fun to drive.

Have fun!


sagesunrise

Pretty little wagon! That yeller one is gorgeous too! Bummer that your dad got rid of it.
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

rare cars

Welcome Chrissy, I am pretty new to the site also and it's been awesome for info & a few laughs! Hey I lived  in South St. Pete for years and sure miss it! See Ya, Troy
My rare cars: '72 Pinto wagon (Pagon), 260" V-8, C4 Auto., Ice blue metallic. Plus seven other works in progress = I have a car problem!

FordPrincess





best pictures i could get today, my phone deleted a lot of good ones  :(

oh here's a picture of the pinto my dad gave away, its now restored. I saw it by chance today acrossed the road from my dad's shop and stopped and took pictures.

Chrissy

78pinto

Welcome to the site, lots of info and people willing to answer questions if any should arise.  Jeff
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

FordPrincess

No pictures yet, I should of taken some today. But I pick it up tomorrow, I'll try to get pictures tomorrow.
Chrissy

sagesunrise

Hi Chrissy,
I'd love to see some pictures of your beautiful 80 wagon!!  Do you have any that you can post?  Welcome!
Tiffany Morrison
'71 Pinto Sedan 2.0, '51 Willys CJ3A, '75 Ford F250, '70 Ford Maverick, '68 GMC Value Van (aka the Hippie Van), and a 1947 Flxible Clipper RV conversion Bus, 1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor, 1969 VW Baja Bug

FordPrincess

I just wanted to introduce myself and my new pinto. I'm new to the pinto scene, I know very little about them so I'll definately be looking around here for information. I've been involved with Mavericks and Comets for many years though, and I own 5 of them. This is my first Pinto, but my dad had a few, and I grew up looking at and using a 76 as my own playground as a kid. We gave the 76 away to a friend who restores pintos a couple years ago. Today I got a 1980 pinto wagon. It's fairly decent, not much rust at all that I could see. It sounds great, shouldn't need much to become a daily driver. This is also my first manual car, so wish me luck on learning to drive it.  :P
Chrissy