Mini Classifieds

Looking for Pinto manual shifter parts
Date: 01/28/2021 03:49 pm
1973 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon 3 Door

Date: 07/11/2023 11:39 pm
V8 rear end
Date: 04/12/2018 10:57 am
New front rotors and everything for '74-'80
Date: 08/02/2019 04:18 pm
Clutch Pedals for 75to 80 Pinto
Date: 09/21/2018 11:35 am
I have a 1977 Cobra body lots of parts here
Date: 04/12/2017 06:57 pm
PINTO TRUNK LATCH & CATCH

Date: 03/23/2018 09:39 pm
Wanted 71-73 Pinto grill
Date: 03/09/2019 10:45 pm
2.0 Mickey Thompson SUPER RARE Rocker cover and belt guard
Date: 08/22/2017 09:21 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,137
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 759
  • Total: 759
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Road racing pinto issues

Started by sponge003, October 22, 2014, 01:42:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dick1172762

Glad it worked out ok for you. How did the lite flywheel work out? What throw out bearing did you end up using?
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

sponge003

We just ran barber motorsports track last weekend.

Car ran great and we took second in our class.

Oil leaks solved by running breather tubes to overflow tank, simple and very effective.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

amc49

Header evacs only work at higher rpm, for more complete evac including the lower rpm range you add vacuum from intake but crank seals then must reverse to seal the case. Two types of one way check valves there too, if using ones intended for a smog air pump with positive pressure they are sprung too firm at the reed and do not aspirate with a header like the extremely light sprung ones used with pulse air systems with no smog pump. Those type reeds are much easier to pulse air through and they seal easier on the pressure pulse as well.

On American Motors V-8 cars I could hit 13-15 Hg. in crankcase much of the time even slow driving on the street with header mufflers using a double end system like that.

sponge003

I think I figured out the oil leak issue and vibration issue

OIl leak - the check valve for the evac  system was bad so the exhaust was pressurizing the engine

starter failures were due to Vibration - bellhousing had a HUGE crack in it, going to a T-5 transmission

sponge003

The rods have oil spit holes on one side of the rod

All the holes are pointing in the same direction

amc49

The early 2.3 had the rods with boss for the oil spit hole but the hole was not drilled. The hole lubes skirts to not scuff them, the early engine problem. The scuffing then lead to too loose and later cracking. Check the rods for the oil spit holes.............

sponge003

No idea year of engine

its a conglomeration of block and heads that came with car

pinto_one

what year 2.3 engine are you using , I know the early ones had piston skirt cracking problems,  which were know top also lead to high blow by , then later all the inside engine parts fitting loosely in a 5 gallon bucket ,  one cheep fix if you can find them is the old 79 to early 80,s  turbo pistons , they had a carb and not fuel injection , they were 9 to one and forged TRW,s with the ford logo on them,  put them in a baylner boat I use to have that came with the 2.3 engine , which use to eat pistons , ( at least the way I ran the boat, Fast and Stop ) that cured it and also used the turbo 2.3 oil cooler off the 84 up T-Birds , good luck on your next race ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

sponge003

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 24, 2014, 07:56:21 PM
While you've got the engine out, please change the rod bolts if you haven't already done so. ARP bolts will give you that piece of mind because the stock bolts will be the first thing that breaks. Cheap insurance.

Already done!!!!

dick1172762

While you've got the engine out, please change the rod bolts if you haven't already done so. ARP bolts will give you that piece of mind because the stock bolts will be the first thing that breaks. Cheap insurance.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

pinto_one

Looks cool, I was going to try the lemons a few years ago and the rule book says you can not have over 500 bucks in the whole can, but you can spend over that in a fresh motor , the one you are using is a stock one with many miles on it or a re ring job, I know on the 2.3 if you have a ton of miles on it driven easy and then run the crap out of it you lose the top ring and blow by gets very bad and gets worse, if you got a good straight cylinder bore and ring seal you will not have hardly any blow by,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

sponge003

Thanks

Been cruising 4M for info already!!!

dick1172762

What I do is seal up the engine and hook the air compressor to the dip stick tube. I then turn the engine on its side where the hole will be running down hill to the out side. Then I coat the tap with wheel bearing grease. Tap a little and remove the tap and clean it and re grease it. Keep doing this till you've got the tap all the way into the block. If you keep cleaning the tap you will be ok as far as trash in the hole. Then take a flash light and look for any trash that the grease didn't pick up. Easy job if you take your time. There is a baffle over the hole in the inside of the block. The baffle can be remove with out any harm as it is there to keep the oil from getting in the PVC. By the way the washer tank is one from a 71/73 Pinto and is 4" X 8" which gives plenty of room to hook the breather hoses to it. Biggest bang for the bucks is an aluminum flywheel. On my Pinto I gained 3 seconds on a 1 min / 30 sec track. You can go deeper and come out faster with an aluminum flywheel. Go to 4m.net for the best mini-stock web site there is. MUCH good stuff there about 2.3 engines. Good luck with your Pinto.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

sponge003

AWesome information thanks!!!! ;D

Motor is coming out to replace all seals as they pushed out anyway so I will tap the block hole then. We dont have a washer tank but we can fabricate something up!!

Thanks again

Paul

dick1172762

Quote from: sponge003 on October 22, 2014, 08:27:42 PM
the evac has the check valve on it.

Do you remove the PCV valve when you run the hoses to a breather xcan?
Yes. I tap the hole to a 3/8 npt and screw in an AN fitting. The hole is the right size for the tap as is. I use 3/4" id heavy wall clear tubing bought off of e-bay. I then run the hoses to the pass side fender well to the washer tank. I've got AN 8 90 deg bulkhead fittings there to hook the hoses to. The K&N breather is placed on a short piece of 1 3/4" tail pipe that is 1 3/4"od one one end and 1 3/4"id on the other end. One end fits the breather and the other end fit into the hole on top of the washer tank. Remove the screen in the hole, and glue the tail pipe in with some really good glue. The only hose clamp used is the hose to the valve cover which in my case is a turbo mustang aluminum one. With the one piece Felpro gasket it will never leak a single drop. All of this was got off of e-bay. When you do this it will show you what AN fittings are necessary. Most will be 90 deg (3) and straight AN (2). All will be AN 8 and will be the type that are pressed into the inside of the clear hose. Cheap and easy. Make sure you measure  close as the K&N filter will be close to the hood. Works for me.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

sponge003

the evac has the check valve on it.

Do you remove the PCV valve when you run the hoses to a breather xcan?

Pinto5.0

Does the evac have the 1-way valve? It really does little with a muffler on. I agree with Dick. Run a hose from the valve cover breather to a breather can or make your own & you will be fine.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dick1172762

The header evacs system does not work very well if your using a muffler. Use the Felpro one piece valve cover and pan gaskets and it will not leak. I've raced Pintos since 1973 and I have never built pressure up in the pan. I run a hose from the valve cover and one from the block breather just above the motor mount on the driver side. I dump the two hoses into an old Pinto windshield washer container with a single K&N 3" dia breather. V-8's run two of those breather with 350" so one is plenty on 144". If you really want to know, put a vacuum/boost gage on the dip stick tube and fire it up. Are the pictures before the race or after? Car looks GOOD like a Pinto should. Let us know as that's the way we learn.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

sponge003


sponge003

Hi

We completed our first Lemons endurance race and overall did quite well for our first time. We ran 604 miles in 14.5 hours and were only off track 2-3 hours for mechanical issues.

The 2 issues we had were
1. Starter broke the mounting tabs and fell off
2. Second starter broke at the electrical portion of the main body and let all the smoke out
3. Oil leaks from everywhere that got progressivly worse as event went on.

The starter I am going to the smaller Ranger starter and will support the back end better.

The oil leaks I think I am building too much cranckase pressure and am thinking of putting electrical vacuum pump on it to try and get some vaccum in the crankcase.
I currently have header evacs on it and I dont think it is pulling anything.

I would appreciate any opinions on our issues thanks.

Paul