Mini Classifieds

Beautiful 1980 Pinto

Date: 04/13/2020 11:53 am
1979 pinto
Date: 04/19/2018 02:02 am
Esslinger 2.0 intake
Date: 03/06/2017 11:58 am
1977 Pinto for parts

Date: 10/10/2018 06:25 pm
1979 Pinto Sedan Delivery

Date: 06/15/2019 03:30 pm
'80 Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/01/2018 05:20 pm
77 pinto
Date: 08/22/2017 06:31 pm
Front sump oil pan
Date: 01/02/2017 06:54 pm
Wanted - 71-73 Pinto grill
Date: 12/15/2016 03:32 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,670
  • Online ever: 2,670 (Today at 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 579
  • Total: 579
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

cam lifter replacement

Started by dumcheesemonkey, August 12, 2014, 05:09:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

amc49

Easier to simply squeeze the lifter oil out with a simple c-clamp if lifter out of engine and by hand. No dirt inside that way too, lifter internal valves very susceptible to dirt of any kind.

Idea is to get the lifter valve around the middle of the travel to make sure it is nowhere near the ends. When starting up a new engine you bleed the lifters down again by c-clamp also as if the valve tips have lengthened and lifter not collapsed then valve again held open possibly long enough to drive you crazy as lifters fill up to get tighter far easier than they drain back down to close down a bit. They are designed to not do that, why overrevving engine pumps them up to run like crap too.

The check is done with cam lobe nose directly opposite the follower contact point, or on the base circle. I have used a screwdriver to then slowly pry the lifter closed internally, then stick your feeler gauge in the gap between lobe and follower to check. The numbers as stated by dick1172............

No need on 2.0 as solid lifter already has clearance when you set the valves. Or it better have...........no real lifters on either engine per se, more like adjustable stands, one engine manual, the other hydraulic.

dick1172762

ONLY for a 2.3. On a 2.3 you remove the spring from the inside of an old lifter. You then install the lifter and check the gap between the rocker arm and the cam lobe. Should be .035 to .055 with .045 ideal. If its too much you will need to add shims under the lifter to get the ideal clearance. You now need to do the other 7.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Scott Hamilton

AMC,

Can you explain the 'collapsed lifter check' with some detail? I'm at a point now with the rebuilt 2.0 for my Yellow Runabout I could do this- having this info in the thread will likely help many folks.

I'm thinking that this is only for the 2.3 since the 2.0 have no lifters? Is there something similar for the 2.0?
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

amc49

That CAN happen however I should point out that the collapsed lifter check is not searching for collapsed lifters at all.

A collapsed lifter will make itself known pretty quick. The test actually describes the state the lifter is in to get the result which is a check that the running tappet has a range that lets the valve stay closing properly at all times. When you do head work the valves raise higher in head and the tips must be addressed by cutting them in varying amounts to restore the running clearance of the lifter top inside the lifter, idea being to keep it somewhere in the middle. If not some valves may be too long and then use up all the adjust distance inside the lifter, then the valve starts hanging open and engine running goes to crap. Left alone long enough and cam lobes begin to tear up since no oil on lobes now, the never having any clearance wipes all oil off.

Pinto5.0

That tick could be from a wiped lobe on the cam too. Sometimes a stuck lifter will take out a lobe.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dumcheesemonkey

its a 79. after a quick search online, im 99% sure that ive probably got a collapsed lifter. ive basically got a tick (some days) that gets better when i let off. In any case why do you recommend i check them if i'm replacing them?
79 wagon 2.3

amc49

I'd still do that collapsed lifter check, I don't build a head on one of these engines without doing it unless all known working together parts going right back in. That one thing lost plenty of engines back in the day. Best friend worked at a machine shop that got blamed for 'faulty work' every time somebody failed a cam after not checking, it happened all the time.

What year? You wanna make d-mn sure the head has induction hardened exhaust seats, and may still show wear on exhausts early since that was done only to run with low lead, with zero lead now the exhaust seats will go right back to wearing more especially if ethanol added. With zero induction heat treat and zero lead fuel mine only went about 12-15K miles before brand new exhaust valves were DEAD, no way were you gonna grind them back into shape, nothing left to grind. '74 model, the year right before Ford began to do it.

dumcheesemonkey

That 40k isn't rebuilt miles. That's total on the car, not that that's necessarily relevant.  I was planning on maybe doing new lifters anyway,  they sell the cam kit which includes them for only about 30 more. I did end up ordering followers when I was at work today.
79 wagon 2.3

amc49

I'll overemphasize that, the cam will go flat unless you use new followers...............after that happens they are matched to lobe and must never be mixed up. Use the supplied break-in lube as well. Any good quality stock replacement follower will work on that low lift cam, the main thing is to get brand new wear surface there. Have a look at the middle 2 cam bearings too, they can sometimes be dead in 40K miles.........

With extra lift you should consider doing the 'collapsed lifter check' since you were apparently rebuilt 40K ago. If someone did not check then and left alone then you may run out of lifter internal movement and then valve be held slightly open to not run right, needless to say the cam goes bad pretty quick too since oil gets continually wiped off the lobe then. Back in the days when these were common many mechanics put together dead stock engines with valvejobs that raised valvetips and no regard for that and the result was the engine became known as one that 'could not be rebuilt successfully' which was a load of crap. Simple ignorance ruined all those engines.

Pinto5.0

Yeah the followers need changed. Like lifters they wear with the cam lobes & can't be reused or mixed up if a used cam is installed. Stock Ford or aftermarket is fine as long as they are new. I've seen reground ones on Ebay but a new set is only $40-50 so why bother.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dumcheesemonkey

with the followers, is that something that will need to basically be matched with the cam or is it just one of those swap it because its a good precaution kind of thing? the only followers im really finding are made by melling and are nothing exactly "special"
79 wagon 2.3

Pinto5.0

40K isn't too bad. Just swap the cam & followers & see how it runs. If you start getting valve float when you beat on it then look at springs.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dumcheesemonkey

ive only got 40k on it, so i cant imagine anything would be very weak. its really jsut a daily driver, although i do have a heavy foot at times
79 wagon 2.3

Pinto5.0

Depending on mileage the stock springs may be a little weak but will work for a driver. Just swap cam & followers unless it's gonna see a lot of upper RPM use
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dumcheesemonkey

im planning on getting a new cam, comp 70-123-6, i was wondering if id be okay with just swapping the cam or if i should get the cam lifter combo kit. according to comp cams because its mild its okay with mostly stock components but ive got no experience on it either. can anyone shed some light on this?
79 wagon 2.3