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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

V8 or no V8, that is the question

Started by Pangra74, January 08, 2010, 11:20:20 AM

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LilPonyExpress

I Have Pictures   Of Some Of The Work And Parts I've Installed When I Get A Chance I will Post Them.

dick1172762

Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

LilPonyExpress

I Was Wondering How You Made Out And If Still Have The Car. I Bought a 1979 Pinto That Someone Butchered They Used House Wiring From The Solenoid To The Battery Cut Out The  Spark Control Module And Voltage Regulator The Tail Lights Are Jumped To Each Other. The Only Good Thing Is The Car Runs, The Steering Column they Hammered Where The Key Switch Goes They Made a Goofy Sheet Metal Hood and scoop. I Have Bought A Used Hood , Trunk, Front Seats, Steering Column , Key Switch, Matching Keys And Locks For Doors And Trunk, Have a Used Set Of Tail Lights On The Way, Complete Wiring Harness, Radiator Is To Tall The Hood Won't Shut Down The Radiator Needs To Be 2.5 Inches Shorter. The Gas Tank Looks Like Someone Used a BIG Hammer And Just Beat it. I just have A whole Lot Of Work Ahead.

LilPonyExpress

Quote from: pintoguy77 on January 12, 2010, 06:06:12 PM
I bought a parts pinto with a 302 installed in it.There was no mods to the firewall done and the stock pinto frame mounts were used.Im putting a 1967 cougar 289 engine in my pinto and using the original c4 tranny that came with the 289.From what ive heard and read,the 289 and 302 blocks are the same size on the outside so its just a matter of copying what was under the hood of my parts car and swapping it all into my 77.Im gonna freshen up the 289 by replacing the valve seals and other gaskets(it only has 65k original) so should still be pretty solid.It also has the original exhaust manifolds that point toward the firewall(on drivers side) so no motor mount interference.Headers for a v8 are a little out of my budget so manifolds are the way to go for now.I tried 5.0 shorty headers on my parts car and they wont fit unless i raise the motor an inch and a half or so,which i do NOT want to do.I dont want to raise the center of gravity .Also gotta switch from points distributor to electronic Ign.My brother had a 302 pinto back in the day and it had a 2bbl and went like a scared rabbit(no joke)I have a 600cfm edelbrock for mine and i was thinking if his was a 2bbl mine will be even faster with a 4 bbl even though i have manifolds instead of headers.Ah well,if it dont turn out to pop wheelies itll sure turn heads at the car show,thats the main thing.

pintoracer02

Iv'e not done it but i heard you can switch sides with the shorty headers where the collector is out of the front of the heads and they will fit but your exhaust runs under your crossmember then. I went with the hooker headers swap and they were still a pain to get to fit. I plan on bracing the core support back up and putting sort of a strut bar between the front frame rails in front of and below the crank pulley. Any body made a good set of subframes they have pictures of? I still have to make some.
Bass Ackwards

pintoguy77

I bought a parts pinto with a 302 installed in it.There was no mods to the firewall done and the stock pinto frame mounts were used.Im putting a 1967 cougar 289 engine in my pinto and using the original c4 tranny that came with the 289.From what ive heard and read,the 289 and 302 blocks are the same size on the outside so its just a matter of copying what was under the hood of my parts car and swapping it all into my 77.Im gonna freshen up the 289 by replacing the valve seals and other gaskets(it only has 65k original) so should still be pretty solid.It also has the original exhaust manifolds that point toward the firewall(on drivers side) so no motor mount interference.Headers for a v8 are a little out of my budget so manifolds are the way to go for now.I tried 5.0 shorty headers on my parts car and they wont fit unless i raise the motor an inch and a half or so,which i do NOT want to do.I dont want to raise the center of gravity .Also gotta switch from points distributor to electronic Ign.My brother had a 302 pinto back in the day and it had a 2bbl and went like a scared rabbit(no joke)I have a 600cfm edelbrock for mine and i was thinking if his was a 2bbl mine will be even faster with a 4 bbl even though i have manifolds instead of headers.Ah well,if it dont turn out to pop wheelies itll sure turn heads at the car show,thats the main thing.

smallfryefarm

Thats the way i did mine the first time in tranny and all hooked the chains to the front head bolts set the tranny down thru to the floor jack then eased it in. it gets a little tight right at the end when the lower bell has to clear the cross member but it went in. the next several times i pulled the tranny left the bell hooked to the motor. have to go slow this way and go in at a angle, you need a motor leveler on the hoist so you can move around but it will go in with the bell hooked up. That way you dont have to fight your way up to those bell bolts after its in
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

Pangra74

I'd like to keep the core support intact. I once stripped a Pinto and cut the top support to get the engine out easy. I was amazed at how much the front of the car flexed with that small section of stamped sheetmetal missing. If anything, I'm thinking of adding a steel box to house the new radiator which will help stiffen the core support. I figure if I can get the car up high enough in the rear, I can get the engine/tranny in in one piece. I don't have a lot of ceiling height in my carport. I have to get the rear in first anyway, maybe over MLK weekend. I'll probably sell my two 4cyl T5's to help pay for a Cobra t5. I guess I will be having a V8 swap sale to unload a lot of stuff I recently invested in the 2.3. I'll post everything here before I ebay anything.
I'm going to do a photo essay of the entire job if it can be of any help to anyone.

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

smallfryefarm

pintoracer02 beileive me it will be worth the time and effort. your gonna llike.
the core support is tight on the install but you can do it without cutting it. and to me a think it looks much better uncut after your done.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

pintoracer02

go ahead and count on running an electric fan and hood pins. you have to cut the top of the core support out to get the motor in and mount the radiator on the outside of the core support. it is really tight in the engine compartment. My buddy has a v8 s10 and his was stupid easy compared to the swap in my car. But mine will look cooler and its a ford :showback:
Bass Ackwards

pintoracer02

Im right in the middle of a v8 swap in my 79 pinto. I used a 2.3 t5 with a 5.0 bell housing and bought a roller pilot bearing from ebay. the only difference i've found is the smaller diameter of the input shaft where it goes into the pilot bearing and gearing. The v8 clutch setup all worked except for that pilot bearing. You do not have to modify the firewall in mine with the t5 setup even tho you cannot fit your finger between the fire wall and the bell housing. I bought the swap headers for the conversion from hooker headers. I went a head and used the stock pinto frame mounts and just beefed them up with more bracing. they will work but i had to add about a 1/4 inch thick piece of steel behind the passenger side frame mount before i welded them to the frame. the drivers side moves forward about an inch too. I've pretty much got the engine all mounted in my car all i have left is to rebuild the 8" axle i bought and rewire everything. I would consider buying a fuel cell and moving it up inside the hatch tho there is no room for duel exhaust out of the back of the car. The conversion is definitly a lot of work but i know it'll all be worth it.
Bass Ackwards

Pangra74

Hey guys,

Check this link. It pretty much explains the history and specs of the T-5

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

smallfryefarm

Joe i just got a notice that they didnt go not sure why. Send me a email at smallfryefarm@yahoo.com i will try to reply with pics. May have to wait and send tomorrow from work if all else fails i will post them here.

David
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

smallfryefarm

Joe i sent you some pics let me know if you dont get them. I have more im sure if you need. But this will give you a basic over view of the build.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

entropy

I recently tracked down the guy who did the V8 conversion on my car and he told me that the T5 was out of a Turbo Coupe. Now, my engine is putting down a dyno-proven 272 rwhp and 350 lb/ft of torque. The previous owner used to run 1/8th mile drags with that combination and I drive it on the street on weekends...sometimes aggressively...and, shockingly, that 4 cyl T5 has held up since the car was built in the late 80's.

A couple of caveats: 1)  The previous owner also installed a thoroughly ill-advised 4.11 rear gear and the car will spin the MT Drag Radials through 3rd.  2)  I'm sure if the car ever hooked it would start breaking parts with the quickness. 3)  I am in no way endorsing this combination, just saying what's grinding away under my nasty little monster.  If I were you, I'd dump that trans and buy either a Cobra T5 or, better yet one of the G-Force upgrades.  Then you'll have some headroom when you start tacking on more power.
1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

Pangra74

if its not too much trouble, send pics to joebone8@comcast.net .

Thanks,

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

smallfryefarm

not a bolt in but i could email some pics if youd like
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

hellfirejim

You know there is another way to do the rear and that is with the CAL Track springs and traction bar.  I have been a pinto with this and it works really well.
jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


Pangra74

You have any pics of the coilover setup? Was it a bolt in kit?

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

smallfryefarm

If you really want to enhance your project when you do the rear end install take out the leaf springs and throw in a set of ladder bars and coil over shocks. Helps get the power to the pavement. And you can run bigger meats.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

smallfryefarm

Well because my car is a 71 i went with a fordmotorsports short water pump and used their aluminum pulley set run, me around 300 dollars but i dont think will have to worry with this. you might have room for standard water pump and could use either one. Keep in mind v belt uses standard rotation water pump and rev on the other.

David
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

Pangra74

Hey guys,

Thanks for the input. I'm aware of the 2.3 T-5 input shaft situation and I know there is an adaptor out there to extend and resize the pilot size for the V8. Seems like too much trouble to have a extra little piece in there. First gear is really low with the 2.3 and sometimes if I'm rolling I start in 2nd gear. My stock rear is a 3:40 and the 8" rear I have is a 3:55, so it will be even lower after the swap. Probably the best way is to do it right is with the V8 T-5. Then if I want to build the motor more, I won't shred the tranny! I'm sure I can sell my other T-5's. The one in the car is freshly rebuilt with under 1000 miles on it, and the other shifts just fine but has a noisy input shaft bearing, easily repaired. Any of you guys ever thought about using electric power steering? A lot of these guys building EV electric vehicles are using these electric/hydraulic power steering pumps from a Toyota MR2. You can put the pump anywhere and eliminate the horsepower drag on the engine. You do need a sufficient alternator to handle the electric load, but the motor/pump only turns on when it senses steering movement with a sensor on the column and stays off at high speed. Might be a way to keep the engine compartment less crowded. Smallfryefarm, are you using V-belts or a serpentine on yours?

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

smallfryefarm

Well this is a desicion that you have to make, what do you want. For me it was kind of a dream since i was 17. I dont think you will have to much trouble on the 74 doing the swap, and i think the v8 t5 bell will fit with no firewall change, so i would think of trying to find one later to have ready cause im sure you will be doing some upgrades to the v8 as you go along. ;D I have always been into hotrods and i like HP, and this little pinto with this V8, well its just FUN. Drives very good, and i have done other things to it to really acomidate the extra HP. Its just different and i think purty as it is fast. Cant wait till spring so i can cruise her in to the drive in, shes goina turn some heads. But this being said my car turned out to be much more than i expected, i mean even more fun than i could imagine and SO glad to have had the chance to do it. So fun that soon hope to find another and do it again.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

yblock64

I forgot about the input shaft differences in length. The pilot diameter is also different from a V8 T5 and  4 cyl. T5. That low 1st. gear would a bit much, too. It should be a fun ride once you work out the details. Smallfryfarm said a V8 in a Pinto is a LOT of fun. I'll bet your turbo set-up was quick too. At least you are making progress, mine is at a standstill due to work getting in the way of my hobby. Good luck! Richard

Wittsend

To my knowledge the T-5 for the 2.3 has two drawbacks excluding its strength.  One is that the input shaft is of a different length than the V-8, T-5.

The other is that the first gear is right around 4.00.  Most of the V-8's had something on the order of 3.35, 3.55 and a 2.95 (I'm doing those ratios by memory so correct me if I'm wrong).

Just for comparison, the 4 speed Toploaders came with a 2.32 (close ratio) or a 2.78 (wide ratio).  I know a number of people who dislike the 2.3 first gear even with a turbo.

If you are basing your decision primarily on the existing T-5 you might want to reconsider.
Tom

Pangra74

Richard,

The Turbo Coupe put out 190hp into the T-5. A stock 69-73 302 V8 with a 2bbl makes 220hp. Probably wouldn't be a problem as long as I don't punish it, and remember, the Pinto is really light, so there will be a lot of wheelspin before anything gets really strained. My other option is to sell the two 4cyl T-5's I have and get one for the V8. Probably should do that.....

decisions, decisions.....

Thanks for your input,

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

yblock64

Joe- I am also planning a V8 swap on my '79 model using the identical Mustang II parts you are using. My swap will use a C4 auto instead of the 5 speed. I've been told the firewall won't have to be hammered using a Mustang II small C4 bellhousing, but I'm not sure about a manual bell. I have been told the 4 cyl. 5 speeds are too weak to use behind even a stock V8, so you may want to consider a 5 speed from a V8. Richard

jwise12345

you should definatly do the swap. From the sound of it you already have a lot of parts for the job. As for the firewall, if it's '74 and up there shouldnt be any modification required.

I say take the oppurtunity and do it, with that fifth gear it should cruise pretty good and to be honest... who doesn't like the sound of a smallblock? ;D ;)

Josh

Pangra74

Ok everybody,

I have the 8" rear for my 74, complete with Mustang II shock mounts, so I can get the more available MII rear shocks. The rear end swap is a definite must do.

From a donor car, I have aquired Mustang II V8 frame mounts, motor mounts, stock exhaust manifolds with the stock header pipes, oil pan and front sump for the oil pump.

I already have a Turbo Coupe T-5 in the car.

I was planning on getting a 1969-1973 302 long block as they were rated at 220hp with a 2 barrel carb which shouldn't be too much power for the 4cyl T-5. ( I think they are good to about 265hp)

On the V8 swap thread, it says that the firewall will need to be pounded a bit. Does that go for the 74 and up with the larger engine compartment? Are we talking major modification, or just a few inches of clearance?

I also noticed that the stock Mustang II exhaust manifolds point straight back and then turn down, probably at the bellhousing. has anyone out there used the stock Mustang II V8 exhaust? have you had clearance issues?

I know a lot of you like the 2.3 Turbo swap as opposed to the V8, but you just can't beat that "lug-lug-lug-lug" sound of a small block!! I also think the car will be quite the sleeper and cruise well with a V8 and overdrive.

Anyway, any advice would be helpful

Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon