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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Too many vacuum lines

Started by poomwah, April 03, 2014, 11:21:37 AM

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amc49

'Which is probably why Wally Booth eventually ran a Hornet in Pro Stock.'

That, and the Hornet was much more slippery in high speed air.................we actually ended up with a Booth-Arons engine in the home race car at one time. A 356 inch engine that came out of one of the Hornets. At the time 780 hp. @ 9000 rpm. Man those ports were freakin' huge and heads were half glue and brass. Pop went to Detroit a coupla times around '74 to meet Wally and tour the shop. After he came back he was a changed man, the head work then became MUCH more radical and why the cars suddenly went much faster. We were head grinding fools back then, Sears was warrantying Craftsman tool and die grinders for us at the rate of one like every 27 minutes back then. I still have 3 or 4 of them laying around that I subconsciously reach for when I see a bare unmolested head, it seems to be a mental disease I now have had for some 40 years. I keep hearing Oscar Goldman say 'we can make him (it) BETTER than he was before!'..........LOL.

390 AMC HOT?? I don't think so. They barely cracked 320 hp. The BIG key that everyone else missed was the TORQUE output (425 ft.lbs. for a 390), look at the specs of the day, the AMC engines made far more torque size for size than other engines did. As anyone who plays with engines knows, you can make big hp. from big torque, not the other way around. The biggest hottest fatblocks from GM and Mopar only made 450 ft.lbs. Pop saw that back then and the game was on. We blew away Mopar 440s by the droves as well as true 426 Hemi cars, 427, 428, 429 Ford (sorry guys) as well. Many of those were wrapped by big body boat anchor cars, the AMX then bumped the equivalent of another 50 hp. simply by virtue of its' low weight. With the stock leaf/link suspension they had we didn't even use traction devices, you could flip one upside down in a wheelie with none at all. The cars launched so hard you saw stars from blood draining from your head. The engines are a piece of cake to make 500 hp. with, we had a full bodied street 390 running in the tens with mufflers. No one could touch it on the street, we drove it to the track and bumped off trailered race cars as well.

I remember calling my brother over to look at the inside guts of a 440 Mopar back in the day and remarking "No wonder they're so damn slow, it takes another one hundred horsepower just to rotate the crank and rods in these....the freakin' pistons are gallon syrup buckets" then we both broke out laughing. Those were some great days and at the time I did not know how lucky I was to get to play with all that stuff.

No, never saw the turboed Gremlin, but we looked at those who swapped other engines into AMCs as sacrilegious, or, they weren't smart enough to make the AMC engine work. The thinking of the times and most certainly no inflection or insult intended to your friend. You gotta be pretty damn smart to run twin turbo and not melt pistons all day long. To each his own. I look at the AMC stuff as a teaching aid, we learned that all engines are the same but each has its' good points, you learn to look for those to exploit when you play with a new one. After the AMCs it was not hard to build six and seven hundred horse BBCs and we certainly did plenty of those as well. Some quite a bit higher, the pro stock engines made like 1500 hp.

Sorry, I have digressed off the topic like usual..................

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Wittsend on April 08, 2014, 04:12:17 PM
I looked for a picture, but couldn't find one with a turbo in the Sassy Gremlin.  But, I found this below (see bold). I also talked to Paul Pittman after his daughter married my friend and he talked bout the shear power when the boost came on. So, at some point it had turbos. I remember the car running at Irwindale. Quiet for a drag car, somewhat slow off the line and gathered speed like a missile.

"There were probably others, but if there were they didn't have the success and get the press of the Mallicoats.

They did well enough with turbos that they ran them on their Barracuda gasser too (around 67 or 68)
Larry T


OK, I looked it up. Mallicoat Barracuda around 1971. Montgomery Mustang-1972. And Paul Pittman (Gremlin) and Panella/Minor (Opel GT) were also mentioned as turboed cars.

It's in the Don Montgomery (Rockerhead here on the HAMB) Supercharged Gas Coupes book."

Link: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-660203.html
Guess I just never seen it with a turbo, with turbos you have built in mufflers,lol, they are a little slow on the bottom until the spools up then they haul azz like gang busters, car left hard with the injectors though..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

74 PintoWagon

Pretty much what I'll be doing except for the carb, probably have $125 in the whole thing.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.


71pintoracer

Nice to see someone interested in cam timing. I did a post a few years ago on how to do it easy & cheap. Maybe someone with more computer skills than me can find it and post a link.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Wittsend

I looked for a picture, but couldn't find one with a turbo in the Sassy Gremlin.  But, I found this below (see bold). I also talked to Paul Pittman after his daughter married my friend and he talked bout the shear power when the boost came on. So, at some point it had turbos. I remember the car running at Irwindale. Quiet for a drag car, somewhat slow off the line and gathered speed like a missile.

"There were probably others, but if there were they didn't have the success and get the press of the Mallicoats.

They did well enough with turbos that they ran them on their Barracuda gasser too (around 67 or 68)
Larry T


OK, I looked it up. Mallicoat Barracuda around 1971. Montgomery Mustang-1972. And Paul Pittman (Gremlin) and Panella/Minor (Opel GT) were also mentioned as turboed cars.

It's in the Don Montgomery (Rockerhead here on the HAMB) Supercharged Gas Coupes book."

Link: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-660203.html

74 PintoWagon

I remember that car very well, don't remember it being turboed though???..



Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Wittsend

"Gremlins even better except they don't launch as well. "

Which is probably why Wally Booth eventually ran a Hornet in Pro Stock.  The Hornet wheel base might also have factored the car better (weight wise) like it did for the Gapp & Roush 4Dr. Maverick "Taxi."  Interesting days in Pro Stock when wheel base was a consideration for weight breaks.

AMC49 do you Remember a Green Gremlin (I think BB Chevy powered) that ran twin turbos and was named the "Sassy Gremlin?"  I'm not sure what class it ran in (if it even met class rules) with the twin turbos.  It was a California based car in the late 70's.  The owner Paul Pittman was the father in law of my best friend from high school.

poomwah

I used to be an amc freak.  amc superfreak as some of the guys put it.
I never raced , just street fun.
  I had a 76 gremlin x that was my low budget "show car"  amazing how many trophy's that thing got and how many people got pissed.
had several eagles, a concord wagon. three javelins and my favorite was a 74 hornet that originally had a 232 but I swapped that out for a 360 out of a 71 javelin sst.  I REALLY miss that car

Rob3865

I am a huge AMC fan. What a lot of people don't realize about the 390 is, much the same as the Chrysler 340, Buick 430 and Oldsmobile 403, the 390 only came one way. HOT. They were all HP engines from the factory, so I could sure see where a bigger engine could get whooped by a 390. They were all kinda badassary.

amc49

Our family thought outside of the box by racing American Motors AMX cars back in the '70s, we were quite reviled for it. 454 Camaro drivers get pretty upset when they get beat by 390 AMX drivers, we did it all the time. Nobody recognized it but the V-8 in a Pinto, or Vega, was already done in the AMX, and a BIG V-8 at that, you gotta look close. Gremlins even better except they don't launch as well.

poomwah

I totally agree on the looks of the intake.  Any suggestions on a cleaner looking intake that won't require any adpater to be fabricated?

  thanks for the carb advice too :]

and to go off topic, tell me about your username? 

amc49

LOL, there is nothing that looks good about a stock 2.3 intake...............

You don't have feedback carb in that year unless a California car. Feedback carb has a vacuum hose running to the top cover at the power valve location, don't confuse it with an electrically controlled vent. They look similar.  You CAN defeat the electric carb vent on front top of carb (if equipped) but you must provide for proper carb venting doing so. IIRC, when wires cut the vent closes and no venting then, someone correct me. I took mine and vented the hose to carbon canister. You can plug it even if you still have carb vent to inside air cleaner, Been a while since I looked at one. Carb really only needs the internal vent to air cleaner to work right.

There is a setup on some to retard spark advance in distributor that I had to leave on mine when removing it made engine ping hard while cold. Once hot it quits. FYI..........

poomwah

ok, so degree wheel and adjustable cam gear are definitely on the list.
so, the only feedback issues on the carb are going to be electric? I have decided I want to use the stock carb and the stock intake IF I can get it to look good. I'm on a mission to make the engine compartment as clean and tidy as possible.
Right side should be easy, Ranger tubular header, and some work with the heater hoses. Left side on the other hand :P
What do you guys recommend for air cleaner?  open element or just polish the buhjeezus out of the one thats on it?

amc49

FYI, the only way yanking vacuum hoses can affect carb is if it is a feedback electronically controlled one. Other than that when yanking hoses you could leave one open instead of plugging it, that would tend to mess up the idle and off idle.

The early feedback carb on these was a 5200 with a modified power valve that instead of instant full on or off was a metering device that modified the main jet flow by adding or subtracting from it. Vacuum controlled it.

If you yank EGR the engine depending on age may ping, simply back the timing off a bit. You need to pay attention to idle ignition timing if switching from spark port to constant vacuum, the constant will increase idle timing and you compensate by moving timing back. That however can have you at lower power when the all-in full advance at rpm is too low. Gotta watch aftermarket vacuum dashpots for advance as well, there were like 50 different ones, by no means are they all the same. Some have more advance than others.

Like the guy says, you really have no idea of what you are doing until you have tuned in dead accurate TDC, you think you know where you are but often you are lost. There is no sense in even quoting this or that number until you have a standard to adjust to.

Wittsend

Harbor Freight has dial indicators pretty cheap.  Well..., they use to.  I got mine back in '05 for $7 and now, even on sale, it is $15.  Come to think of it I paid about $7 for the magnetic base too.  But look around. I got a Swiss made Interapid indicator at a swapmeet for $3.  My machinist son drooled, and then by chance he got the exact same for next to nothing too.  List was something on the order of $175.

poomwah

well, I just found so many scans of degree wheels that I can just print one and glue it to a piece of plastic or sheet metal and have a freebie degree wheel :] 

Rob3865

I agree. I guess it's just the mechanic coming out in me. Been doing it since 1974, so sometimes I take for granted not everybody has tools they forgot they had. Nonetheless, 4* difference will make a world of difference in how that little pup runs, degree wheel or no.

Wittsend

 "you have no idea where it will end up."

True, but with a history of retarded cam timing in the 70's, chain (or belt) stretch, low compression (often from pistons TDC being down in the hole) I seriously doubt you will wind up with valves hitting pistons or too high a cylinder pressure if you advanced say..., 4 degrees (as a max).  You are probable just putting the cam back to some prior, less stringent smog year (and new belt) degree setting.  I seriously doubt it will go out of the range of acceptable.

  And in the end the setting will be "what works."  That is the whole point of the adjustable sprocket. It is because you desire to deviate from the manufacture setting. That part is done by testing, not math.  I wouldn't argue at all if you are building a race motor with tight piston to valve clearance, compression ratios that push the limit of cylinder pressure etc..  Though I'd bet that regardless of where an engine was set when built, not too shortly after it is run the timing set stretch and initial cam wear have it off anyway.

But here (on a stock 70's era 2.3), you loosen the bolts, you rotate the sprocket, you test drive.  When it is to your liking (if it even gets there) then curiosity might factor into seeing what the number really is. 

poomwah

thanks guys, I will definitely look into the degree wheel.
Wittsend, thanks for trying to save me a few bucks :]

Rob3865

I would never in a million years move the camshaft timing without knowing where it is first. Without that knowledge, you have no idea where it will end up. Degree wheel kits are pretty cheap. Get one, learn to use it and you can recoup the money spent on it degreeing cams for friends. It is simple grammar school math. There's nothing to it after you walk through it a time or two. Moving camshaft timing without a degree wheel is just something I would never do. In fact, I use a degree wheel coupled with a compression gauge to make sure I maximize cylinder pressure for a given engine combination.....but perhaps that's getting a little deep for now. Without the degree wheel, you have no idea where camshaft timing is. Rest assured, Ford didn't degree it from the factory. I have seen them bad as 8 degrees off from the factory. Just food for thought.

Wittsend

$100+ gets you an incrementally adjustable sprocket

$50+ gets you a specifically adjustable sprocket (like the link below) Knowing you were into saving cash, it was the one I was thinking of.

And, WOW $15 for (one) offset cam key?  I must be living under a rock.  I bought one for a Mercedes once and it was only $7.

In the end if you know what you want (what has worked for others) the end result is all the same.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2-3-Ford-Adjustable-Cam-Timing-Sprocket-Stock-Look-Anodized-Billet-Aluminum-/131144352234?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e88d001ea&vxp=mtr


poomwah

where can you get the 50ish cam sprocket? the ones I'm finding are 100 or more

Wittsend

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on April 04, 2014, 12:36:00 PM
Advancing the cam increases bottom end, retarding the cam increases top end, don't matter if injected or carbureted.

Yes, sorry for the confusion.  You are correct (injected or carbuteted) cam timing is all the same.  I was more stating I was unsure of all the vacuum hoses on the Pinto.  I went from a 2.0 to a 2.3 turbo in short time.  Sometimes I complete a thought a paragraph or two later (it comes with getting older). :-(

74 PintoWagon

Advancing the cam increases bottom end, retarding the cam increases top end, don't matter if injected or carbureted.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Wittsend

Some of the devices can be beneficial.  Not sure if the Pinto had the temp sensitive air bleeds in the air cleaner, but they generally help to compensate for air temp., and should be benign once the car is moving.

EGR has the potential to be tricky.  Can you run more advance because the combustion temps are lower with EGR??? Or, does a non diluted mixture with EGR removed provide more power???  The good news is that it is easy to test.

I've heard (but have no experience) that advancing the cam helps. It seems not only the Pinto, but just about every car of that era.  There is the $50-ish cam sprocket, but there are probably offset keys that can be bought for about $5. 4 degrees (max) is the number I recall hearing.  An easy task (just make sure you put the key in right).

Sorry for the "generalize" comments, but I'm not familiar with the carburated Pinto.

poomwah

awesome,
I had been reading on here about someone with a 2.3 that had the emissions stuff pulled off and it killed his gas mileage due to the way the vacuum lines control the mixture on the carbs
I like the idea of removing everything.
Funny thing, I can't find my vacuum caps, I need to go but some more :P

74 PintoWagon

If no smog you can get rid of everything, like Rob says PCV and vacuum advance is all you need, that's all I have left on mine and I hooked up the vacuum advance to full manifold vacuum, that increased mileage and idles a 100% better and no shake.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

poomwah

thanks Rob, I didn't know that about the charcoal canister, mine is hooked up now.  The lines going to it were the first broken ones I found, I did the quick fix and cut an inch off the ends of them an plugged them back in.

So, no goofy solenoids or anything on the carb that are vacuum controlled?

Rob3865

I would think with no emissions testing, the PCV and vacuum advance would be all you need. Also too, IF you still have your charcoal canister, I would retain it. They can actually net you a few more MPG by returning fuel vapor to the tank where it condenses back into liquid gasoline.