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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1978 Pinto vs. 2005 Focus - Improper lane change

Started by dave1987, October 21, 2013, 08:55:45 PM

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bbobcat75

I WOULD FIGHT FOR A CLEAR TITLE~!!
ITS YOUR CAR AND THE ISURANCE COMPANY CAN GIVE YOU A CLEAR TITLE!! NOT A SALVAGE!!

GOOD LUCK

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

dianne

Quote from: dave1987 on October 31, 2013, 08:36:00 PM
I'm planning to paint the whole car when body work is done, no masking when the work begins.

OK cool :) Whenever you're ready let me know :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

I'm planning to paint the whole car when body work is done, no masking when the work begins.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

I can fix that fender ;)

It's going to look like Milo so you know. You shouldn't mask where you're priming, it causes ridges ;) We could do some of the other areas we looked at also to show how I fix those!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

Buffed off the paint transfer from her car, sanded and sprayed the bare metal areas with rust-olem rust reformer (a sealer like primer for bare metal) to keep the rust away until I can begin body work.

Looks better, I think. Not good, but better.


1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Quote from: dave1987 on October 31, 2013, 07:08:56 PM
Deffinitely. I am a quick learner and easy to teach skills to. :)

You let me know the day and I'll be able to do it with you. The sooner the better to at least cure the rust! You can bring the console with you then also :D

I really enjoy the bodywork part, not certain how I'll do with the engine yet LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

Deffinitely. I am a quick learner and easy to teach skills to. :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Quote from: dave1987 on October 31, 2013, 06:05:09 PM
Makes sense! I'll let you know when I'm ready to start, we are working on the purchase of a home at the moment, need things to settle down first.

Have you ever used an air file before? I think it's called a straight line sander in technical terms. It's pretty much an 11" long 2.5" wide vibrating sander. Works great for knocking down bondo with 36 grit. I need to show my brother how to use it when we do his 75 Chevy 3/4 ton.

On Bondo (Everlast is better I think), I try and get it as thin as possible and then lay it on light. For sanding I use a vibrating sander with that purple 3M stuff (it seems to work the best). But you can use my tools after watching and some teaching, but I don't know how it will be going to another set of tools for you. You can do all your work here if you don't feel comfortable I guess, but I think with a little showing you, you would be able to do it on your own.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

Makes sense! I'll let you know when I'm ready to start, we are working on the purchase of a home at the moment, need things to settle down first.

Have you ever used an air file before? I think it's called a straight line sander in technical terms. It's pretty much an 11" long 2.5" wide vibrating sander. Works great for knocking down bondo with 36 grit. I need to show my brother how to use it when we do his 75 Chevy 3/4 ton.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Quote from: dave1987 on October 31, 2013, 05:57:54 PM
I wouldn't mind. Would you mind coming over to my parents garage to do it, though? We've got everything needed to do it there, a nice big air compressor with lots of pneumatic tools, and the welder! >:)

I'm planning to cut out and patch the quarter panels while I'm at it. Doing the cowl repair before repaint as well, but right now just need to get that quarter panel fixed and primered before the rust takes hold there to!

I've got all that as well. I don't know how I would do with pneumatic tools and all, they are more powerful. I have the air compressor also, but use electric tools. I actually use 2 different vibrating sanders. I have a wicked grinder though. I'd rather use my tools because I know them.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

I wouldn't mind. Would you mind coming over to my parents garage to do it, though? We've got everything needed to do it there, a nice big air compressor with lots of pneumatic tools, and the welder! >:)

I'm planning to cut out and patch the quarter panels while I'm at it. Doing the cowl repair before repaint as well, but right now just need to get that quarter panel fixed and primered before the rust takes hold there to!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Quote from: dave1987 on October 31, 2013, 05:45:34 PM
Thanks Dianne!

That's what we hope, is that it continues to be passed down through the family. It is the only new car of my mother's generation that is still being driven and cared for. There is just so much history that goes with it, that it can't be let go! :)

Now I can't wait to start on the body work! It's been awhile since I had a body hammer in my hand and done anything with body filler! We'll see if I still have a talent for it or not! lol Been building computers and amplifiers since I last did any body repair with my brother years ago, I hope I didn't loose the eye to do it nice!

Dave, my offer still stands. If you want to come down one Saturday or evening, we can do some of it and I can do it with you at first. Just to get you started is all. Then you can go hog wild on it yourself. My offer stands open and you're more than welcome to spend a few hours doing it together. Seems I'm really good at it :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

Thanks Dianne!

That's what we hope, is that it continues to be passed down through the family. It is the only new car of my mother's generation that is still being driven and cared for. There is just so much history that goes with it, that it can't be let go! :)

Now I can't wait to start on the body work! It's been awhile since I had a body hammer in my hand and done anything with body filler! We'll see if I still have a talent for it or not! lol Been building computers and amplifiers since I last did any body repair with my brother years ago, I hope I didn't loose the eye to do it nice!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

$1,800 will get your car fixed Dave and leave you some money for other things like you said. Shame on the salvage title, but who cares really since you'll have the car forever anyway. Maybe your daughter will give it to hers and so on and it will become a family heirloom. Who knows, but you done good!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

The adjuster came by on Tuesday to look at the car, said it was in nice shape too. He took a lot of pictures for reference and went to his car to give the info to the company he works for. After about 40 minutes he came back and told me that he couldn't get a value on the vehicle due to there just not being many left for sale to base a value on. It being a "specialty vehicle/classic". He told me he would get back to me in a couple days after the investigating team for American Family Ins. did some research finding vehicles for sale comparable to mine.

Today I got a call from him stating that the team for American Family Ins. came back with a value for the vehicle being $2293 (I think that's what he said), and that since I want to keep the vehicle, they are deducting the lowest salvage bid of $500 from the value of the vehicle, and they will be mailing me a check for the remaining (roughly) $1800, of which I should expect within the next few days.

Even with the salvage title, I am comfortable with the end result and glad that I will still have the car to hand down to my daughter to keep it in the family. While the value of the vehicle is, now, pretty much nothing, it's the sentimental value of the car that means more to me. My mother isn't happy to hear about the salvage title, but happy to hear we still get to keep the car.

Thanks everyone for your help and input through this, I hope this helps someone else down the road as far was what to expect if their beloved pony is ever involved in a traffic accident.

The money will go towards body filler and paint, the remaining will go into the home we are soon to purchase. If nothing else, I'm at least getting to do body work again! :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

But it doesn't need any parts, that's the thing. The high quote wants to replace the quarter panel because it would be "difficult" to repair, not impossible though. I know exactly how to go about it to, nothing a stud welder and slide hammer won't fix with some patience and a little body filler. Everything back of the wheel well damage is just paint transfer and scuffing.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Dave,

Like I told you before, fight the insurance company and negotiate the repair. Look on ebay for the parts. I can help with the repair like I told you if you want. If you drop the paint and the auto body shop primes it for you, we can paint it at my place. I guess we should wait to see how mine comes out first, but I think it will be fine!

Dianne
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

amc49, I can understand what you are saying, but this is only cosmetic damage, there is zero structural damage done, I've spent a good hour and a half under the car and found nothing bad, no warped floor pans or bent "frame". This is all cosmetic damage. If anything maybe I can get  a "repairable total loss" settlement, repair the car and have it inspected to have it be recorded as repaired.

Just throwing ideas out there, but since it is cosmetic damage, and if the insurance adjuster agrees that there is no structural or mechanical damage, would it be possible to negotiate with the adjuster to keep the vehicle from being written off as a total loss, and settle for an amount less than (no saying HOW MUCH less) what they would offer me to keep the vehicle and still write it off?

If I can keep them from writing it off as a total loss and still make get some sort of settlement to reimburse myself for the repairs I would do myself, I will. I'm not afraid of doing the repair myself, in fact I would actually prefer to.

Writing it off as a total loss and and still keeping the car wouldn't be unacceptable, but I would prefer not to have it written off for records sake.

I will never sell this car, that is all it is. It has been in my family since new, handed down twice and my mother signed it over to me in 2007. She was hesitant to, as she still loves the car (it was her first new car, ever), and told me to "take good care of her baby". I plan to hand the car down to my daughter when she gets old enough to truly appreciate it for what it is and the history that goes with it.

Therefor, a total loss write-off and retention of of the vehicle would not be unacceptable, but I would like to avoid it if possible.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

I'm sure laws vary from state to state, but my daughter-in-law totaled a Cadillac I owned in January of this year, here in Virginia.  As soon as the insurance adjuster deemed it a "total loss", they offered me two options: a check for the NADA retail book value minus my $100 deductable; or a check for a reduced amount and I could keep the car.  I took the first option and applied the money toward a replacement car.  I do not know if the title would have been branded "salvage" if I'd kept it or not... we never got that far in the discussion. 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

amc49

If actually declared 'totalled' the insurance company is supposed to insure that vehicle does get junked and title is voided. Several TV stories lately after floods where they do not and cars end up back in the hands of the public to bad things happening. $60K trucks sold for $40K that do not run at all and massive electrical problems, that type of thing. When adjusting insurance company traced down the finger pointing began, against the law at least in state where it was done.

dave1987

 About half the cost is paint, since the paint on the car has some pearl added and it is near $800 per gallon on average. The other half is labor, and on the spendy quote it is the quarter panel.


I don't plan on letting the car go and I have plans to negotiate with the adjuster to keep the car from being totaled out while still getting it fixed. I will keep you all updated.

Dwayne, I got your pm, I will let you know when I hear what their insurrance plans to do.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

74pintoguy

I would keep the car until you can repair it, or have it repaired.  If you let it go, you will regret it in the long run.

Pinturbo75

supply a replacement door yourself that just needs a paint match.... should drop the cost of repair significantly.....
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

sedandelivery

I do not know how you do it, the insurance company is sure to know, I have a friend whose car was totaled by the insurance co., but he bought it back off of them some how fo a lot less than they paid out to him. I really do not know how that works, though. I know the local auction co. has a standing offer for all the unsold cars so maybe that is how i's done?

dave1987

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Collector Car Market Review places the value of the car at $1875

NADA Guide value - $1318

Collector Car Price Tracker - $2486 for general 1978 Pinto search, adding Sedan drops it to $1780

to name a few.

I got two estimates today and will be getting one more thursday morning (appointment only).

#1 involves replacement of the entire quarter panel sheet metal, and re-forming the door shell since it no longer lines up with the quarter panel (pushed inwards). Also all of the typical paint, body work, and blending, as well has "repairing" the offset of the rear bumper. - $3282.15

#2 involves repairing the existing quarter panel, no replacement of metal panel, door shell re-forming and the typical paint, body work, and blending. Also includes "repairing" the offset of the rear bumper. - $2061.70

I am assuming that #3 will be closer to the same quote as #1, as I have gone to them in the past to get a quote on repairing minor quarter panel rust, and straightening/reshaping the cowl panel. That was around $3200 six years ago.

If they do end up totaling out the car, I would do the work myself, but I am looking at a 78 Mustang II Cobra for sale for $1000 OBO, has a torn down 5.0 EFI and T5 transmission. Would be what I need to do the V8 swap with less parts searching. Would do body work and repaint as well.

While I'm not actually hoping for either repair or a cash payout, I'm hoping things work out for the best in the end. I'm working on trying to purchase a home at the moment as well and this takes secondary priority, it's more an inconvenience than anything. :(
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Dave,

I'd fight that too.  If it was your fault and your insurance company, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on but since the other party was at fault and you are presumably dealing with THEIR insurance company, it's worth a shot.  Did you look it up under NADA used car pricing, or collector car pricing?  I don't know what your damage estimates were, but there could be enough difference in those two values to tilt the odds in your favor.  If all else fails, accept whatever settlement they will give you and keep the car and repair it yourself.  That may or may not result in a salvage title but that's irrelevant since your plan has always been to keep the car.  Keep us posted and good luck!

Dwayne :)



Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

If I were you, I'd fight that. Regardless what anyone thinks your car is worth, the other guy is at fault, and he/she damaged your car, so I think they should fix it! Try to get at least 3 estimates and hope for the best!

One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

So I got some estimates to have the work done and its more than the nada value of the vehicle. I don't see them paying for it, most likely they will total the car and give me a check. Sigh.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

ETPinto