Mini Classifieds

postal pinto
Date: 06/03/2020 09:31 am
78 hatchback

Date: 03/12/2023 06:50 pm
vintage Pinto script sunshades

Date: 03/05/2017 03:27 pm
Squire trim
Date: 03/28/2018 10:11 am
1980 PINTO for sale
Date: 06/19/2017 02:51 pm
1972 Runabout (GOING TO SCRAP BY 5/28)

Date: 05/21/2019 11:50 am
Need '75 Pinto wagon front seat belt assembly housing
Date: 10/03/2018 10:46 pm
1980 pinto wagon for sale
Date: 12/11/2017 12:13 am
pinto for sale
Date: 09/11/2016 09:47 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,457
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 548
  • Total: 548
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Hi all! My son is a new Pinto owner!

Started by SonicXtasy, April 14, 2013, 09:58:45 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

half pint

Congrats on the super clean purchase!  I would ditch the 2.8, but that's just me. I hate those things. But, if you're gonna keep it, EFI is the way to go. I'd personally go with either a turbo 2.3 or a stock 2.3 from an 07+ Ranger...good luck, look forward to seeing more on this one!

Sent from a crack house in the ghetto.


OhSix9

Yeah the FI will clean up the hose mess. like the article says you strip off all the original stuff. Air pumps pump air into the cat so it has o2 to burn unused fuel. Circle jerk emmisions control device. being injected it wont get so slobbering rich that even if u need cats you can go airless n loose the air pump.

Have at er with the coping saw to mount a din. If the factory one is taller i just make a plexi coverplate and paint it from the back. chopping the panels doesnt really help they are pretty tight. if you are gonna do kick speakers you may want to make rings and standoffs n just pull/glass some fleece. I haven't played with car audio in a few years myself. one thing I noticed is power and gobs of it is now dirt cheap
Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

Pinto5.0

Congrats! Welcome to the Pinto world. I'm restoring an '80 hatchback to be my sons 1st car when he turns 16. It should serve him well for years to come.

I picked up a '77 with a V6 a few years back & it ran rich & rough. When I tore the engine down both heads had cracks between the valves. Apparently that's common with the 2.8L
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

SonicXtasy

Quote from: D.R.Ball on April 15, 2013, 09:25:58 PM
Check the tune up and/or valve clearances they sound like it has to to be done. The valves need to be adjusted about every 10 thousand miles or so....It also looks like the seal on the pinion bearing could use replacing, it looks like it's leaking...Other wise great car.

I just ordered the 1987 Ford mechanics books on CD rom and when it arrives a very mechanicly inclined friend is coming over to help us go through each system one by one.

We don't have emissions here and the car idles rough and runs very rich. He recommends that we replace the carb with an aftermarket 2 barrel and remove the smog pump and all the vacuum crap thats not needed. I actually think it will be cleaner with everything removed and running leaner. Any opinions? If I am posting this in the wrong section, mods please move it and let me know. Thanks

D.R.Ball

Check the tune up and/or valve clearances they sound like it has to to be done. The valves need to be adjusted about every 10 thousand miles or so....It also looks like the seal on the pinion bearing could use replacing, it looks like it's leaking...Other wise great car.

SonicXtasy

Actually the radio bezel is untouched. It has what looks like a factory AM/FM 8-Track from the front, but looking at the rear wiring it looks more like an "OEM looking" aftermarket radio. A DIN radio will get installed if I can find another bezel to cut up. Also want the extra kick panels to cut up and fabricate mounts for speakers. I will not cut up the doors etc. Someone did installed some crappy dual cone speakers in the rear side panels. They will be replaced and the grills made to blend in. Will probably get a moderate amp and a small removable subwoofer box. I was a car audio installer many years ago but haven't done anything to our current cars because they stock sound was adequate. I am looking forward to installing a nice simple low key system in his car.

I like the FI upgrade idea. Will that get rid of the 8000 vacuum hoses on this engine? What the hell does the smog pump actually do??? Actually, I don't care about about making the car go faster but I am open to anything that increases fuel milage which usually does increase power as a byproduct.

Rims are a maybe. My son is a little nerdy (he's in robotics club, etc) and the hub caps are fitting. But if we stumble upon the right "era appropriate" rims for the right price then they will probably make there way on the car.


bbobcat75

will check on the kick panels and stereo bezel- wagon is full of boxes of parts

im not too far away then!! im in swfl near naples ft myers
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

OhSix9

nice find. Really clean.  step 1  exhaust system. it's got a v6 so give it true duals with a x-over. cats on a carbed car = bad bad bad.  Is your bezel missing for the radio? I'll bet the son wants a din deck with aux in and stuff so if you have a hacked one you may want to just make a cover .

Ooooh  check this link out   http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/2_8_FuelInjection.html     

And it needs rims....  But you have a house slave now.   Oh and its a first car.  don't let the rims get bigger than 15's or you run out of sidewall.  more scraped lips.


Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

SonicXtasy

Thanks for the welcome. It will be a fun experience.

@bbobcat74 - I am in Largo which is between St. Petersburg and Clearwater. About 20 min SW of Tampa. I see you have wagon you are parting out. By chance does it still have the radio bezel and front kick panels? Will they fit the 78?

Yelby

Congrats! 

I purchased a 76 wagon from Northen California 1 1/2 years ago.  It too was very solid.  I flew out and drove it home.

bbobcat75

GREAT LOOKING CAR!!

WHAT PART OF FLORIDA ARE YOU IN??

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

chrisf1219

hello thats exactly what my pintowagon looked like when i first got it.had mine for over 6 years 3rd owner.good luck with your pinto chris
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

dga57

WELCOME  SonicXtasy!

That looks like a really good wagon!  Nice score!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

DreamBean

First of all, Welcome Sonic!! We are glad to have you here. Secound, GREAT CAR! I am sure that your son will have a blast in it.
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

SonicXtasy

Hi guys,

New to the forum and to Pintos. My son turns 16 in September and so we recently started looking for a unique, inexpensive car that we could work on together to get ready for his 16th birthday. He really wanted a 70's or 80's hatchback or wagon. His first choice was a mid 80's Toyota Corrola GT-S hatchback, aka AE86. Besides the fact that a decent one was way out of our price range, a new to driving 16 year old should NEVER get a RWD, stickshift "sports car" as there first car! The search moved to other cars such as a Chevette, Gremlin, Pacer (he wanted one bad but could not find an affordable decent one), Omni, Relient/Aries wagon, Pinto, other old Toyota's and Datsuns. After a long search of local cars (up to 2 hour drive) and finding nothing but over prived rust buckets we began looking on ebay where we stumbled upon this....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-Ford-Pinto-Wagon-Original-Stock-Survivor-/300880692849?ViewItem=&item=300880692849&forcev4exp=true

Needless to say I was the high bidder. I still can't believe I bought a car in California that I had never seen in person. Then I still had to ship it cross country here to Florida! Anyway, it arrived Friday and it looks better in person. There is some surface rust at the battery and I have found 2 very small rust bubbles starting but otherwise there is no rust anywhere. If the California plates on the car are any indicator then the last time the car was on the road was in 2003.






Car will remain mostly stock with the exception of upgrading the stereo which will be done without cutting up any original parts of the car. We had planned on painting the car because of the few dents but it looks so good I am having second thoughts.  I will be posting for needed parts any opinion and help in the near future as we get more into the car.

Thanks,
David