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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

what about mustang II's??

Started by WIV8Pinto, April 27, 2011, 08:31:45 PM

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slowride

I just wish I could find a 1975 MII with the 302 somewhere close at a decent price. I have an urge to go racing again, but it wouldn't be as much fun if I couldn't drive it on the street occasionally (Calif emissions is why it has to be a 1975).

Reeves1

Quote from: blupinto on May 15, 2011, 11:45:58 PM
Where in California?

Top secret !  :lol:

Car was never advertized.

blupinto

One can never have too many Pintos!

Reeves1

Quote from: T.HADLEY on May 15, 2011, 04:37:01 PM
Post up lot's of pics I'm very interested to see your project.

T.

Will do !
By the way, I too am an operator. I have about 25 years on excavator alone. Grew up with my Dad's company. He had mainly D-8s (the old 14-A).

Might be some time before starting the project though. I have to drive down to CA to pick the car up yet. Wanted to go down by now, but things didn't work out that way. Likely the fall now ?
Plus my pass port isn't back yet. What a PITA that is, just to cross into the States !

T.HADLEY

Quote from: Reeves1 on May 15, 2011, 03:32:07 PM
Must have been the other guy that posted pictures in your topic then.
I saved a link to his pictures as well.

Going to start a Pinto build this year. With the 347 from Ford Racing that I'm looking at, I think with a front mount I'll have more room for headers along the motor sides.

Post up lot's of pics I'm very interested to see your project.

T.

Reeves1

Must have been the other guy that posted pictures in your topic then.
I saved a link to his pictures as well.

Going to start a Pinto build this year. With the 347 from Ford Racing that I'm looking at, I think with a front mount I'll have more room for headers along the motor sides.

T.HADLEY

Quote from: Reeves1 on May 15, 2011, 07:01:04 AM
Mr. Hadley - read about your car & buy the time I was done the 23 pages my eyes were worn out ! LOL ! Great topic & well worth the read !

Would like to see more pictures of the front engine plate/mounts , if you have more pictures ?

I'm not sure what you mean? all my cars have standard engine mounts.

Thanks for taking a look at the build, that was a little over a years work.


T.

Reeves1

Mr. Hadley - read about your car & buy the time I was done the 23 pages my eyes were worn out ! LOL ! Great topic & well worth the read !

Would like to see more pictures of the front engine plate/mounts , if you have more pictures ?

T.HADLEY

Quote from: 2.3stangii on May 14, 2011, 05:17:54 PM
You mean Mustangii.net right?   ;)

Do I get any cool points for referrals?  ;D

Yes you are correct, that is what I meant... :lol:

dga57

Quote from: WIV8Pinto on May 13, 2011, 08:35:59 PM
Dwayne, you'ra a luxury car guy? Then the 64-66 t bird  personal luxury car is definitely for you...I like the fiberglass tonneau cover that turned the tbird into a "two seater"...What do you think about the newer Thunderbird? I like the styling but some say it is styled after the 53-55 corvette with the rounded styling...some say it looks like it is going backwards...



Oh yeah, I'm definitely a luxury car guy!  Have had Cadillac, Jaguar, and even Rolls-Royce, but my primary love has always been Lincoln.  Have owned thirteen of those babies over the years and currently have four in the stable: a '79 Collector's Series Continental, a '79 Mark V, a '95 Mark VIII, and an '08 Town Car.  Like I said, the '64-'66 Thunderbirds are my favorites of the entire T-bird run.  Prior to that they weren't quite luxurious enough to suit me, later on they were more like Lincoln wannabes.  The early '80's models were disgraceful, and the later ones were shapeless.  The only Thunderbird I ever owned was a light jade metallic '77 with a dark jade top and interior.  It was an okay car but really didn't offer anything I couldn't have gotten in a Ford Gran Torino or Elite. As for the latest Thunderbirds, I know there is a lot of controversy over their appearance, but I generally like them.  When the time comes when I no longer need a rear seat, my intention is to replace my '08 Chrysler Sebring convertible with a nice low-mileage '05 Thunderbird 50th Anniversary Edition in cashmere.  I love that car! 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

2.3stangii

Quote from: T.HADLEY on May 14, 2011, 12:33:36 AM
I'm a member over at Mustang II.org, Great bunch of people over there, I just found out about this site so I signed up.


You mean Mustangii.net right?   ;)

Do I get any cool points for referrals?  ;D
78 Pinto wagon
74 Mustang II
78 Cobra II

blupinto

T, that first '74 looks just like my '74 Runabout... except mine has less horsepower and less stickers. lol
One can never have too many Pintos!

WIV8Pinto

Very cool T HADLEY!! Really nice bracket cars and M II..I love drag racing, and can't wait to get out there this season...I race a Union Grove Great Lakes Dragaway in Union Grove WI....I can't believe all of the interest and great feedback that the Mustang II question has garnered! It shows the passion for Pintos Mustangs Mavericks and other Fords........RSM, maybe time to find another V8 M II???
1972 V8 Pinto Wagon 351 Windsor C4 4.88 gears...& hang on!!!!
Also 02 F150 4x4 and 96 Explorer sport 4x4

RSM

I really like that Mustang II...I wish I woulda kept my 78 V8 car.

T.HADLEY

I'm a member over at Mustang II.org, Great bunch of people over there, I just found out about this site so I signed up.

Ive been a pinto owner since the 70's and  Mustang II owner since the 80's

Here are some of my toys

We are the second owner of this 74, 78000 original  miles, we built it to run in NHRA stock eliminator W/SA, we set the national record with it in 2005, It's now retired from stock, and so we put a 4 barrel carb on it, just for bracket racing.





Next up is the pro bracket V8 car, It's a 74 also, The car was built in 1983 and has been redone many times.









The Mustang II,

It was my car, but now it belongs to my son, A very large build thread on this car can be found here.
http://www.mustangiiregistry.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13074









As you can probably tell we are drag racers... :lol:

blupinto

My pleasure. As I mentioned before, I love these cars. Pintos are my first love, but Mustang IIs are a VERY close second.  :smile:
One can never have too many Pintos!

WIV8Pinto

cool...good info blupinto...I didn't know  alot about the ghias...I have some studyin' to do! Thats right about house of ghia that I forgot & should have remembered...you reminded me about ghia styling...I used to subscribe to AUTOMOBILE magazine, which was an awesome publication, because it was all about automotive styling...I'll have to check and see if it is still in publication, but the articles were fantastic for all auto enthusiasts interested in the history of automobile styling....it's probably all out there now on wikipedia....yay internet...thanks for the quick response...
1972 V8 Pinto Wagon 351 Windsor C4 4.88 gears...& hang on!!!!
Also 02 F150 4x4 and 96 Explorer sport 4x4

blupinto

The Ghias were of the style of the world-famous House Of Ghia... in other words they were the more stylish of the Mustang IIs. To me all MII models looked feminine- not a bad thing in my opinion. The Ghias had vinyl roofs and I believe it had better options like wood-tone trim inside, better roadnoise-proofing, automatic transmissions more standard on them... I'd have to look at my dealer brochure for the benefits of the Ghia version. I do know Ford also produced Ghia versions of Granadas/Monarchs, Fox-Body Mustangs/Capris, and (I'm pretty sure) Fairmonts/Zephyrs.  I hope I know what I'm talking about... ::)
One can never have too many Pintos!

WIV8Pinto

There have been over 600 reads on this thread, so thanks to all for reading and commenting...all comments, criticisms, likes or dislikes are welcome...everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I love the feedback, so feel free to chime in and voice your opinion...
1972 V8 Pinto Wagon 351 Windsor C4 4.88 gears...& hang on!!!!
Also 02 F150 4x4 and 96 Explorer sport 4x4

WIV8Pinto

I'd like you guys to fill me in on the mustang ghias...I hear a lot of talk about them, and know they are really desirable, but what is different about them?? I need to be filled in...wasn't the ghia designed as a softer vesrion with the female buyer in mind? And when was the German engine put into the Mustang II? Was it short-lived?? I've only seen one ever at a car show, and don't know much about them...

Dwayne, you'ra a luxury car guy? Then the 64-66 t bird  personal luxury car is definitely for you...I like the fiberglass tonneau cover that turned the tbird into a "two seater"...What do you think about the newer Thunderbird? I like the styling but some say it is styled after the 53-55 corvette with the rounded styling...some say it looks like it is going backwards...

69gt, too bad you missed out on that King Cobra...I got my doors BLOWN OFF by a King Cobra back in the 80s in my firebird with a big block in it!! ouch!! My fbird was not slow!!

1972 V8 Pinto Wagon 351 Windsor C4 4.88 gears...& hang on!!!!
Also 02 F150 4x4 and 96 Explorer sport 4x4

69GT

  I like them too. I have to say I made a mistake when I passed on buying a 78 King Cobra that was for sale here a few years ago. Body was strait it had a 4-Speed and ran fine,  and it was primer gray waiting for paint. Guy wanted $3000.

dga57

I agree that the Mustang II took the car right back to its origins.  They were probably the closest thing to the first Mustangs that Ford ever produced.  I have never owned one, but I do like them.  Like you said, the Thunderbird grew from its lithe two-seater roadster status in 1955 to sharing a chassis with the Lincoln Continental Mark IV twenty years later!  As far as styling, my all-time favorite T-birds are the 1964-66's, but then I'm more of a luxury car guy than a sports car guy!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

Well, I do like the Mustang II styling... especially the Ghias with the slimmed rear quarter windows. While it looked nothing like the Stangs of the previous years, it did appeal to me. It was more feminine but from '75-'78 it could kick some rear! lol . I did also like the re-designed horse too. It's realistic, which- dumb as it may sound- makes the car that much cooler to me. I would so love to get one of those V8 Ghias or the T-top hatchback. One- or both- are on my bucket list. :)
One can never have too many Pintos!

WIV8Pinto

The rack & pinion was a good leap forward...I like the Mustang II because it got back to the basics of what a Mustang was all about in the first place...if you compare the 64 thru 66 Mustang to the II, it really captured the essence of the original. Look how big and long and heavy the Mustang became...It needed a diet, and in a hurry!!

Same with the Thunderbird...wow...I don't agree with Ford's decision to keep the name of the Thunderbird on so many different platforms...I think it is twisted marketing, but it DOES keep the name alive...I love the early Thunderbirds, but what the heck was that in 67? kinda bizarre if you ask me...I even like the rocketship styling of the 61 thru 66...some don't, but I like the styling...I am a mechanical designer by profession, so I look closely at automotive styling...

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Mustang II styling? agree or disagree...
1972 V8 Pinto Wagon 351 Windsor C4 4.88 gears...& hang on!!!!
Also 02 F150 4x4 and 96 Explorer sport 4x4

69GT

Quote from: 2.3stangii on May 09, 2011, 03:52:32 PM
This may be sacrilege on a Ford Forum but, I also like the looks of GM's Vega and Monza (and related clones) cars for obvious reasons. Plus they too seem to get the same kind of disrespect from their brand's Muscle car crowd.

One thing we all need to ban together on, and that is to get some decent size 13" tires made for our cars, they seem to be discontinuing all the good sizes.


There is a V8 Vega running around here. The cool thing is I saw him at a light this morning while driving my heavily modded V8 Maverick in the opposite direction.

I think Mustang IIs are a case of a car being judged by its motor. The II represents the end of the Muscle car era to most people. In 73 you could get a Mach 1 with a 266 HP 351 Cleveland. In 74 the best you could get was a Mach 1 with a 105 HP 2.8 liter V-6. I think that permanently tainted the Mustang IIs image with the performance minded Mustang crowd. They did however bring Rack & Pinion steering to the Mustang and that was a huge advance.


dga57

Quote from: WIV8Pinto on May 09, 2011, 08:33:31 PM
Dave, sorry to hear about all of those MII's just sitting there...wastin g away...oh well, time & money...

I agree with 2.3stangii.... V8 Vegas are really cool....anyone who disrespects small cars just doesn't get it...

It really hurts the sport/hobby when I hear ALL of the trash talk at car shows...Really turns me off...I say if you don't like someone's car, just keep it to yourself...

some cars are beautiful because of all of the cash spent on them, and others are just doing the best they can with what they have...at least the budget guys are trying to particiapte, so I say cut everyone some slack...

I don't hear enough encouragement out there, and a LOT of criticism...it's just a shame...

Well said!!! :drunk:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1957

off the subject.. But got to give the dude in the Nasty sounding Gremlin props for  whooping that dude in the crx who was fuckin with me in my stock 79 turns out he has a 401 in it ..thank you american dork car brother..Im a dork also
1979 bobcat
1974 red stinkbug
1979 orange pinto sedan aka project turbo hack
1979 orange pinto all glass hatch 52k

WIV8Pinto

Dave, sorry to hear about all of those MII's just sitting there...wasting away...oh well, time & money...

I agree with 2.3stangii....V8 Vegas are really cool....anyone who disrespects small cars just doesn't get it...

It really hurts the sport/hobby when I hear ALL of the trash talk at car shows...Really turns me off...I say if you don't like someone's car, just keep it to yourself...

some cars are beautiful because of all of the cash spent on them, and others are just doing the best they can with what they have...at least the budget guys are trying to particiapte, so I say cut everyone some slack...

I don't hear enough encouragement out there, and a LOT of criticism...it's just a shame...
1972 V8 Pinto Wagon 351 Windsor C4 4.88 gears...& hang on!!!!
Also 02 F150 4x4 and 96 Explorer sport 4x4

dave1957

 i like the mustang II the is a junkyard in my town that prolly has between two and three hundred of them  some are stacked on top of each other.. :(
1979 bobcat
1974 red stinkbug
1979 orange pinto sedan aka project turbo hack
1979 orange pinto all glass hatch 52k

2.3stangii

This may be sacrilege on a Ford Forum but, I also like the looks of GM's Vega and Monza (and related clones) cars for obvious reasons. Plus they too seem to get the same kind of disrespect from their brand's Muscle car crowd.

One thing we all need to ban together on, and that is to get some decent size 13" tires made for our cars, they seem to be discontinuing all the good sizes.
78 Pinto wagon
74 Mustang II
78 Cobra II