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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

a possible Hawaiian donor car?!

Started by Jippah, March 16, 2011, 11:20:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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Jippah

oh man... im originally from Montana... if only i was still home i'd just drive out and pick them myself haha

but yea, i've only heard of freight shipping rates (which unfortunately i have no idea how to go about shipping something "freight")

maybe someone else knows :/
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

dave1987

Jippah, I have good news, fair news and bad news.

Good news - There are two Mustang II's with 8" axles here in Idaho. About 5 miles from here Meridian to Nampa.

Fair news - They want $180.00 for one, I would have to pull it, not hard to do with all the experience I have had with pulling axles the past 12 months.

Bad news - I have no idea how I could ship it to you! I don't know if Fedex would ship to Hawaii, but I'm sure if I did ship it there it would probably cost around $200 if not more. :(
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Jippah

Quote from: dave1987 on April 01, 2011, 04:10:32 PM
Curious, where did you get your wheels from?

well, i stumbled upon them at this site --> http://www.americanracing.com/wheels/?wheelid=VN0691&siteid=1&groupid=29&page1=4

and took the model number (VNA 69 ANSEN SPRINT) and searched it on google to see if i could find someone who would make them for me. after you have the model number, its up to you which company you choose you want to order them from.

JUST BE SURE YOU SPECIFY YOU WANT THE 4x4.25" (4x108mm) BOLT PATTERN
:)
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

dave1987

Curious, where did you get your wheels from?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

71hotrodpinto

well i did a quick search for your pinto/mustang II axle on craigslist in hawaii. I came up with nothing. However i would recomend you search for ANYTHING mustang II or pinto. Then even if they are just selling a grill or a carb, ask them if they are selling the axle. couldnt hurt. Hope you get something.
Robert


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

71HANTO

Quote from: Jippah on March 21, 2011, 12:21:35 AM
I have a friend with a 2004 Audi TT that has given her nothing but problems since the day she bought it. the car has is the quattro model and the full time all wheel drive system is just been a headache forever... shes sunk a few thousand dollars into that car with no obvious headway :/
the car has the bulletproof T/C 1.8L and my lil head got to thinking.... what would that be like? O.o

I was a Service Writer for Audi around 2004-2005. The TT and A4 convertible were by far the most common sights in the service bays. The TT has the Haldex Quatro system which is inferior to the Torsen system found in all the other Quatro Audi models except the A3 (I have a Torsen worm gear rear in my Pinto for racing). The 1.8 is a great engine but suffered from oil sludge build up and failed seals in WAY to many cars that I saw so watch out when buying a used one. One of the best engines Audi has ever made is the Aluminum 3.2L non turbo at 265HP IMHO.

Note: there are two versions of the 3.2L. One standard version and one that is narrowed to 15 degrees to fit the TT and A3 with slightly less torque than the standard one. The narrowed one might be a good one for a Pinto conversion. I saw a supercharged one in a VW R3.2 putting out 600HP!

71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

Bigtimmay

A 1.8T out of a Audi could be fun its the same motor that's ran in the 1.8t VW golf I've seen those motors pull 300hp before but that's with some money put into it stock they put out around 180hp at the flywheel.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

tinkerman73

Thats right, I forgot about those! There cool! LOL>
Jody Michielsen

Jippah

Quote from: tinkerman73 on March 21, 2011, 05:07:16 AM
Well, how are you at grinding and welding? Or, maybe you can hire a fab shop to do the rear end for you. The only down fall is the axle ends. But...... have you ever thought of cragar rims? I kow I found a gorgious red pinto wagon with cragars on them! Just beautiful! LOL.

??
i dont plan on taking the entire drivetrain from the car... my plan was to mount the engine perpendicular to the drive axel and mate it to a T5 with the 8"

and i dont need cragars... i have these :D



*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

tinkerman73

Well, how are you at grinding and welding? Or, maybe you can hire a fab shop to do the rear end for you. The only down fall is the axle ends. But...... have you ever thought of cragar rims? I kow I found a gorgious red pinto wagon with cragars on them! Just beautiful! LOL.
Jody Michielsen

Jippah

Quote from: tinkerman73 on March 20, 2011, 07:43:56 PM
Hey, you want wild and one of a kind? Pull the 4.9 BB Northstar and drive train from that caddy! That is if thats what it got! My caddy was about 5,000 lbs and with that 4.9, I showed up a early 90's vette going down the strip in sevierville! My caddy was a 91 Springtime edition, wih was only available in limited numbers and only by mail owner to previous caddy owners. It was a beautiful baby blue with white caraige top with moon roof and white leather interior. The kid driving the vette pulled up to the light and started reving his motr. Turned and laughed at me, then got a quizical look when he realized I was no old fuddy duddy! LOL. When the light turned green I smoked them tires and him! Yes, it is a front wheel drive! I will never forget that day! I had other simular stories like a kid that had a SHO taurus with power chip and crap on it. Blew him away like no tomorrow! So think what one of them would do in a pinto! ROFLMBO!!

thats awesome!
i have been thinking about an unpractical powertrain idea that has recently presented itself to me, check this out;

i have a friend with a 2004 Audi TT that has given her nothing but problems since the day she bought it. the car has is the quattro model and the full time all wheel drive system is just been a headache forever... shes sunk a few thousand dollars into that car with no obvious headway :/
the car has the bulletproof T/C 1.8L and my lil head got to thinking.... what would that be like? O.o
(wikifacts)
1.8 T quattro
1,781 cc (108.7 cu in)
Inline-4 20v DOHC Turbocharger
225 PS (165 kW; 222 hp) @ 5,900
280 N·m (207 ft·lbf) @ 2,200-5,500 <--- that 4spd "hummer" and 6 3/4" will never hold up...

i found a company in the Netherlands that makes a bell housing that will mate the german 1.8L to a ford "type-9" transmission! i got in contact with them and they said they also have quite a few adapter plates to mate the engine to a T5!!

that would truly be a one of a kind!! (but not with a 6 3/4" rear end  :nocool: )
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

dga57

Quote from: tinkerman73 on March 20, 2011, 08:27:25 PM
Sorry Dwayne, but you are absulty incorrect my friend! My cadilac was a 1991 dwville and it was confirmed to be the 4.9 Northstar! It was a mail order car only that year being the springtime edition for previous caddy dealers. The handbook stated such. The vin crossreference d as such. The autoparts store had that size in file for that vin number and the GM garage also told me that is what it was. Cant argue with the ex owner! LOL. Perhaps that was a special deal for those cars? I dont know. But I know that is what I had!

According to CADILLAC, it was not!  As for ownership, between the years of 1981 and 2000 I purchased six new Cadillacs.  That included one of the ill-fated V8-6-4's, and an even worse 5.7L diesel, an HT4100 (good engine), a 4.9 L V-8 (probably one of Cadillacs best engines), an oil-guzzling 4.6 Northstar (by the way, all Northstars were 4.6's), and unfortunately, a 3.0 L V-6 in a disastrous 2000 Catera.  After that, I switched to Lincolns and have had basically trouble-free motoring.  This is my last comment on the subject.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

tinkerman73

Sorry Dwayne, but you are absulty incorrect my friend! My cadilac was a 1991 dwville and it was confirmed to be the 4.9 Northstar! It was a mail order car only that year being the springtime edition for previous caddy dealers. The handbook stated such. The vin crossreferenced as such. The autoparts store had that size in file for that vin number and the GM garage also told me that is what it was. Cant argue with the ex owner! LOL. Perhaps that was a special deal for those cars? I dont know. But I know that is what I had!
Jody Michielsen

dga57

The Cadillac in the photo is a 1989-93 Deville and should, indeed, have a 4.9 V-8.  It would not be a Northstar however, unless one was transplanted into it.  The Northstar engine debuted on the 1992 Allante and did not make it to the Deville line until 1994 (and then only on the Concours edition).  It became the standard powerplant for the Deville in 1996. 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

tinkerman73

Hey, you want wild and one of a kind? Pull the 4.9 BB Northstar and drive train from that caddy! That is if thats what it got! My caddy was about 5,000 lbs and with that 4.9, I showed up a early 90's vette going down the strip in sevierville! My caddy was a 91 Springtime edition, wih was only available in limited numbers and only by mail owner to previous caddy owners. It was a beautiful baby blue with white caraige top with moon roof and white leather interior. The kid driving the vette pulled up to the light and started reving his motr. Turned and laughed at me, then got a quizical look when he realized I was no old fuddy duddy! LOL. When the light turned green I smoked them tires and him! Yes, it is a front wheel drive! I will never forget that day! I had other simular stories like a kid that had a SHO taurus with power chip and crap on it. Blew him away like no tomorrow! So think what one of them would do in a pinto! ROFLMBO!!
Jody Michielsen

dga57

Quote from: sedandelivery on March 20, 2011, 07:29:52 AM
That roadster in your picture I think is an Excaliber kit car and most of them have Pinto running gear. Might be something there for you.

Those kit cars were built using various compact cars of the day, but it certainly couldn't hurt to have a look/see.  There just might be a Pinto lurking under all that!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

sedandelivery

That roadster in your picture I think is an Excaliber kit car and most of them have Pinto running gear. Might be something there for you.

Jippah

yea i understand... its just exponentially more difficult and expensive out here isolated from the mainland
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

dave1987

My mustang II 8" has 4x4.25 bolt pattern. Which is perfect because my restored steel style rims look sexy on my 78! :)

Keep an eye out. It took me three years to track down the one I have.

I was parting out a 78 Mercury Bobcat station wagon a couple years ago and I met this gentleman with his son who were setting up their Mustang II for light racing at the local speedway. They were pulling the bent up bumpers off the Bobcat,  but they couldn't find a good set of 13" 4x4.25 wheels to use. We swapped phone numbers and I gave them two 13" steel style wheels for $15 if I recall correctly. His son kept my number around since I have a lot of Pinto parts which can be interchangeable with Mustang IIs. Well the son came through my drive-thru (Jack In The Box) while I was working and wanted a set of 78 Pinto bumpers. Lucky for him I had good front and rear 78 bumpers that I pulled from a 78 Pinto station wagon last summer and I purchased them for $30 for the pair. Well, when all was said and done, I drove the bumpers out to his house and we swapped! I got myself the much needed 8" Mustang rear end and he got the bumpers of his dreams! :D

The moral of the story...Be outgoing to help others in the classic car world (Fords to), look into swap meets during car show season and swap phone numbers with fellow Mustang II and Pinto owners. I honestly didn't expect to have an 8" for my 78 Sedan until another two years down the road!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Jippah

Quote from: tinkerman73 on March 19, 2011, 08:26:15 PM
How much for the whole car? LOL.

he was actually quite rude about it.
as soon as i mentioned "that old maverick up there" he interupted me with a stern, monotone "It's not for sale."
i responded with i dont want the whole car, just the rear end and he said "$300."  :hypno:


i've been doing a bit of reading and i've heard quite a few people say that the 4x4.25 axles will not just slide right into the 8" rear end  :'(

i am considerably dissappointed... seems like nothing is getting accomplished with my pinto... its quite disheartening  :'(
:sigh:
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

tinkerman73

Jody Michielsen

Jippah

well i found a junkyard that had a small number of pre 80's cars still on the property.

thought i'd post a few pictures of my friday afternoon :)








and this last picture is the best one... or at least, the closest thing to a parts car for my 76 Shelly on the entire island :(



yep. a 1972 ford maverick.
i had a hard time getting a good look at the car considering where it was perched... but i know its has an 8" rear end.



only thing is that i really dont want to put a different bolt pattern on the rear end of shelly.. i paid quite a pretty penny for some custom 4x4.25 patterned wheels...
not to mention the guy who runs the lot wanted an outrageous $300 for a used rear end!! what a thief!

anyone know if i can just slip the axles from the 6 1/4" rear end into the 8"? that seems like it would be too good to be true  :'(
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

Jippah

thanks for the input fellas!

however, due to some potential financial issues (Navy may not be getting paid on the 1st of April  :hypno: ) i think I'm only going to grab the T5 for now.

i also ordered the V8 swap manual off of eBay. i know its been rumoured to be practically useless... however it will at least give me some more insight on a possible swap. (if not good reading material  :drunk: )

in short, I'm going to grab the T5 and wait on the engine until i can make a more educated decision.
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

tinkerman73

Quick side note, if you do get the rear end, make sure you get the whole deal with hubs and all! Also, if you like, the center console can fit the pinto too! See what it has for a sterring wheel. Maybe theres a nice custom one on it? Thanks.
Jody Michielsen

tinkerman73

I would certainly grab the motor and trans if the V8 is the swap you want to do! As previously stated, you can change the top end. Thats no problem. As for the rear end, they can be found on evil bay. But, I am sure that the shipping to the island could be a killer. If you can weld, you can grind off the mounts and weld on new ones. So that is a 50/50 there! Kinda sucks for you being on the islad as the stang II's do come up on ebay cheap once in a while. I have been watching for one. But none near me yet. Of course, I dont have the money for one now anyways! LOL. Good luck in your search!
Jody Michielsen

Fred Morgan

I have a 75 4 lug V-6 8" out there, never shipped to Hawaii. Done England, Australia, Canada I don't know will need to do ship weight + size check quote to the big I.  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

Bigtimmay

Even if the motor is a efi motor all you would need to do is change the intake to a carb intake and if its a HO motor its should run pretty good. That is if it runs!

As for other suitable rear ends A mustang 8.8 can be used but it will be wider then the stock rear end and you will have to weld on your own spring perch. other then something like that or a custom job the only other options are goin 5 lug and getting a Granada/Versailles 9 inch rear (exact bolt-ins) or a ranger/explorer 8.8 rear(needs some mods to work). The later 90's(98 and close to that) model explorer rears are nice cause they are 8.8s with usually 3.73 gears a trac-loc, disc brakes and 31 spline axles.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Jippah

Quote from: 71hotrodpinto on March 17, 2011, 03:06:57 AM
Yes the 8 in out of a Pinto. Any that came with a V6 (i think) and some later station wagons. IIRC they stopped making the small rear sometime in 78?? I got mine out of a 78 V6 sedan model.
BOLT IN....

Now where to find one on the Island..........

i know there are no other (registered) pintos on the island... let alone one willing to surrender an 8" rear end :/

and besides... just learned 1985 was the last year for a carbureted 302 engine. meaning the 1986 donor car has EFI and i don't think im willing to tackle EFI or a conversion  :-\

in any case, back to the rear end... so you're saying there are no other options for a rear end (without extreme modification) for this set up other than a 8" pinto/mustangII/maverick rear end? because those aren't an option  :'(

anyone wanna ship a rear diff to the hawaiian islands?  :rolleye:
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)

71hotrodpinto

Yes the 8 in out of a Pinto. Any that came with a V6 (i think) and some later station wagons. IIRC they stopped making the small rear sometime in 78?? I got mine out of a 78 V6 sedan model.
BOLT IN....

Anyways the Pintos 8 in only differs in that it has smaller necked down axle tubes and weaker axle shafts. I dont think the tubes being smaller is that much of a consequence and for any serious HP your going to upgrade the axles and diff anyways.
Id say your good for about 350 hp with street tires and the light weight of the car. With slicks all bets are off and probably only about 550 HP with the best available HP parts for that axle anyways.


Now where to find one on the Island..........


If you find someone there that does that kind of fab work you could use the 8.8 with ALOT of work done to it. Shorten it, leaf pads, etc. But in the end it will take just about anything you can throw at it!


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

Jippah

im sure i could find another suitable donor car for the rear end.

any ideas of a post 80's car with a decent fitting rear end capable of withstanding the torque of a 302?
*BANG*
"What was that!?"
'... Speed bump?'

1976 3door MPG 4spd 2.3L "Shelly"
-------------------------------
1993 camaro (6cyl)
2004 F150 FX4 (5.4L) "Ed" <- daily driver
2001 Suzuki Katana (blown rod) "Blue Fury"
2006 Kawasaki ZX636 "Blue Fury v2.0" (113hp on 2 wheels!)