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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

What is the last NEW Pinto worth?

Started by Original74, October 02, 2010, 12:14:40 PM

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phils toys

the only thing not brought in to the equasin so far would be the year. it seams the earlyer models are more desirable than the later  with the mid 70's being the least desirable because of the larger bumpers  and emisions pulling down the hp.  i know every one has a style they prefer mine is the large bumpers and lots of chrome, with the square head lights  least desirable to me.  so with that  an 80 with 429 mile would not be worth as much to me as a 76 with 10,000 miles. just as a 55 chevy is not worth as much as a 57  would be  but i prefer the 55  more. as with any car  it is worth what you are willing to part with it, my bobcat is near priceless, the fun i have with it is hard  to put a dolar value on . so i guess i would not enjoy a lower milage one as much because i enjoy driving mine.
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Original74

Thanks to all who have shared in this thread. I have learned a lot from your input, and I think it boils down to this:

How much money could you put into a complete restoration to make a car 'like new'? I think the suggestion of $20K to $25K is very realistic.

Then there is the thought of if there is any value in this car being what I believe to be the lowest mileage Pinto known to exist. As you have shared, not many would own this car and let it sit. To each his own, it certainly hurts to not drive this car. But there are people out there with money who would love to have this car and keep it just like it is. Also as has been stated, something is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Thanks again for all your input, it has opened my eyes to a different way of thinking.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

bigfoot

Quote from: mcjbob on October 04, 2010, 10:45:04 PM
"You're not talking about that Sea Foam Green one in San Diego are you!? That car is delicious! I love the interior/exterior colors."



The Sea Foam Pinto in San Diego was listed on eBay several times, and was finally sold on 9/24 for $6795. It was repainted, 10K miles, and had interior repair. Not really original, but a nice car.
Well that figures. The first time it was on ebay I was high bidder at 7K and when I contacted them they said the reserve was 11K. I quit watching it much after that. Just as well. Until I finish my project I need another pinto like a turtle needs disc brakes. But there is orange and white 74 in Kansas City I sure like! HAHA
1976 runabout
1978 turbo
2000 electra-glide

beicholz

Good advice, mcjbob!

I'm one of those aging boomers...55 for another few weeks.   I fondly remember Pintos.   I had a Vega, but they were so poorly built, few survive.  If the engines aren't blown, they are rusted from head to toe.   And those that do survive are impossible to keep running.   When my Vega was 1 year old, the problems started.  At 22,000 miles, it was ready for the junk yard...nothing worked from the engine to the clutch to the brakes...you name it.

I never owned a Pinto, but wanted one.  I drove many, including the wagon.  My parents almost bought an LTD Squire with the 3rd row.   Instead, they bought an Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser.   How cool was that car...windows in the top and all!

But the Pinto is right up there.   I love my Runabout, and call it my "Costco" car, because with the seats folded down, it's perfect for those Costco runs with 100 rolls of toilet paper, etc.

So many cars.   So little time.   It's a good thing I don't have a lot of space for cars or I'd be broke!
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

mcjbob


"You're not talking about that Sea Foam Green one in San Diego are you!? That car is delicious! I love the interior/exterior colors."



The Sea Foam Pinto in San Diego was listed on eBay several times, and was finally sold on 9/24 for $6795. It was repainted, 10K miles, and had interior repair. Not really original, but a nice car.



74 Squire, 3rd owner, 136,000 miles
77 Squire, 3rd owner, 26,000 miles
63 Vette Roadster, 1st owner, 380,000 miles
61 Bonneville 2dr hardtop, 3rd owner, 61,000 miles
78 Ferrari 308 GTS, 2nd owner, 40,000 miles
29 Model A Ford Roadster Pu, 2nd owner, mileage unknown

mcjbob

"And MCJBob has PROMISED to let me know if he sells sweet pea, right? "


Its for sale as soon as I find my 73 Squire, 4 speed, a/c, Lime Green Metallic, in the same condition as Sweetpea.


  "I was bidding against him on EBAY, and would have pushed the price up if my sniping skills had been better. ;-)"


As I am at the point in my life where I am spending my kids inheritance, Sweetpea would have sold for considerably more had their been additional bidding. 

"Finally, as an addendum...I have read in a couple of places that due to this website and aging boomers who remember Pintos...our cars are becoming more desirable.  Who knows...if you wait longer, perhaps your car will be worth even more!"


You are very correct here. I track Pinto prices (and all collector cars) very closely, I'd say that 5 years ago, a mint condition squire wagon would have topped out at $5,000.  Yes, aging boomers are part of the equation. Someone who was 10 years old in 1970 and rode around in their parents Pinto, is now 50, kids leaving home, kids college about paid for, are looking for Mr. Peabody's Way Back Machine. For many, thats a Pinto.


My own love for Pintos, is that I like unique cars. I bought a Pinto Squire new in 1973, and it served us well. Go to a car show and how many 55 to 57 Chevys do you see?  Nice cars, but certainly not unique.

Back to what a Pinto is worth?  To me, Sweetpea is priceless. Where would you find another?  And, where would you also find another "lowest mileage" Pinto known?


If its the lowest mileage Pinto on the planet, or one of the nicest original Squires, dont let a few $$'s stand in your way of a once in a lifetime chance. 
74 Squire, 3rd owner, 136,000 miles
77 Squire, 3rd owner, 26,000 miles
63 Vette Roadster, 1st owner, 380,000 miles
61 Bonneville 2dr hardtop, 3rd owner, 61,000 miles
78 Ferrari 308 GTS, 2nd owner, 40,000 miles
29 Model A Ford Roadster Pu, 2nd owner, mileage unknown

beicholz

1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

blupinto

You're not talking about that Sea Foam Green one in San Diego are you!? That car is delicious! I love the interior/exterior colors.
One can never have too many Pintos!

beicholz

Thanks, BluPinto!

As another addendum...I've been told the Jade Pinto previously listed for $16K, marked down to $12K....has now been marked down to $11K.  It still hasn't sold. (Info courtesy of PCCA member Bigfoot....Thanks!)
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

blupinto

One can never have too many Pintos!

beicholz

And MCJBob has PROMISED to let me know if he sells sweet pea, right?   I was bidding against him on EBAY, and would have pushed the price up if my sniping skills had been better. ;-)

Finally, as an addendum...I have read in a couple of places that due to this website and aging boomers who remember Pintos...our cars are becoming more desirable.  Who knows...if you wait longer, perhaps your car will be worth even more!

For me, it's not the value of my car.   It's the fun I'm having driving it...and all the people I meet who just HAVE to tell me about the Pinto they had as a kid.

What's the real value of a Pinto?   Priceless, of course!!!
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

mcjbob

What is it worth, simply what someone is willing to pay you for it. 


Mileage is just one factory in a cars value. Not long ago, if memory serves me, a 57 Plymouth, brand new when "parked" was unearthed from a time capsule. While I dont think that it was put up for sale, water had gotten to it, and it was so bad the key was rusted into the ignition. Value?  Maybe 5 to 10 miles, but rusted to death!


Beside mileage is desirability.  I work with estate vehicles and sold a garage kept, one owner California 50,000 mile 72 Toyota Celica in #2 condition in $10K range. I sold another car from the same estate, a 72 Chrysler 4 door, MINT, and only a few thousand miles, and after 6 months got less than 1/2 of what we got for the Celica.


One of the cars in my personal collection is a 63 Corvette I bought new and its got over 380,000 mile on it, and still driven at least monthly. A friend has a similar car with 9,9xx mile on it, and he does not want to drive it as he does not want it to hit 10,000 miles. Sure, his Vette runs circles around mine in originality, but parked side by side, with my two rebuilds and one partial restoration, they would look very similar in condition. Plus, I'm not sure I'd trust the little used 45 year old master cylinder, wheel cylinders and brake lines.


Big difference to me at least, I've had 370,000 miles more fun with mine than he has with his.


This brings me to "Sweetpea" the 77 26,000 mile mint original I bought earlier this year on eBay. My decision for this car was it was a Squire and its condition. If it had only 500 mile on it, I really think I would have passed. I want a car I can drive and enjoy, not as an investment, or a museum specimen to be looked at but not touched.


So, what is the possibly lowest mileage Pinto worth?  I'd do like the Bluebook, and determine the value of a similar car restored or with average mileage, and add maybe 25% to a maximum 50% for mileage. Then, like fishing, wait for my line to be tugged. You could sell it tomorrow for $5,000 I'm sure, but even $10,000 might take awhile, at $15,000, that may take a long time. To me that would be the maximum upper limit for someone who just has to have the lowest know mileage Pinto in existence, and does not plan to drive it.


Then too, what happens to the value if a lower mileage Pinto surfaces?


My two cents!


74 Squire, 3rd owner, 136,000 miles
77 Squire, 3rd owner, 26,000 miles
63 Vette Roadster, 1st owner, 380,000 miles
61 Bonneville 2dr hardtop, 3rd owner, 61,000 miles
78 Ferrari 308 GTS, 2nd owner, 40,000 miles
29 Model A Ford Roadster Pu, 2nd owner, mileage unknown

beicholz

Dave,

My best guess...and I've followed this consistently for several years...

You'll be lucky to get $12,000...and even then, only if you find a very special buyer.   As evidence:

* I have a like-new '76 that needed some minor repairs, only because it sat for 25 years.   What did I pay?   $2,100 on EBAY.  It had 40K miles, and looked brand new...no rust, no sun damage, etc.   It had the original paperwork, including the owners manual.

* The highest price I've seen so far is a killer Pinto Squire that could have just come off the show room floor.   It went for $12,100.   But there hasn't been such a fine Squire since then.

* The best regular Pinto I've seen is like yours and was on the market for $12K, marked down from $16K.   It appears to have been taken off recently, meaning it probably sold for around $11K.    This car took a long, long time to sell (if indeed it sold at all).

Hope that helps!
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

Original74

Beicholz,

This is a '79 sedan, jade green, black interior, all vinyl seats, 2.3, 4 speed. No A/C, but does have rear window defroster. I do not have the original window sticker, although that can be purchased. I DO have something that speaks to the authenticity of the low miles though. I have a copy of the DMV records from Michigan where the original owner sold the car in 1999 (20 years old) and it lists the odometer at 123 miles.

I was joking about the $100K, just a dream to sell it to Leno for retirement.

This is a Pinto that comes as close as you can get to concours judging. The Mustang guys that rebuild their cars to factory specs, down to the bolt have nothing on this car, as it is factory original. Replaced battery of course, and the steering rag joint just failed in storage last summer. Factory original is the rubber joint that age got the best of. It is the sweetest sounding, sweetest riding Pinto I have seen since I bought my 1974 Pinto in 1974!

I have had guys drive this car that restore Pinto's, and all they could say was 'oh my gosh' as we drove. It is truly a time capsule that needs to remain that way. I know Gordy in Kansas City has I believe a 1975, with 609 miles on it. Until I learn otherwise, I am claiming this car to be the lowest mileage Pinto known to exist.

Anyhow, I am sure many who read the way I feel about this car as being a bit too crazy or optimistic, but it is something I haven't seen since I bought one new.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

beicholz

Can you give a bit more info about this car?   We know the year, but what about the rest...options, window sticker available, etc.

A near-perfect Squire (possibly the most desirable Pinto) recently went for $12K on EBAY.   There's a near new Pinto on EBAY now around $12K and it's not selling...been there for months.   $100K does seem a tad high.




1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

dga57

Quote from: Original74 on October 03, 2010, 08:24:41 PM
Dwayne, buy a lot of lotto tickets and win!


Oh, Dave... you know you don't REALLY want me to buy Jade and use her as a daily driver!!!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Original74

You know, as Rear Ended eluded to, you can put a lot of money into a restoration. Just think how much money you could spend, and many have, restoring a car. To bring a Pinto as close to 'new', original, not modified, I am sure could go well into the 20's.

Dwayne, buy a lot of lotto tickets and win!

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

dga57

Quote from: apintonut on October 03, 2010, 07:20:29 PM
if i won the lotto id pay 25-30k but i would be the worst oner as i would drive it

Same here! :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

apintonut

if i won the lotto id pay 25-30k but i would be the worst oner as i would drive it
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

75bobcatv6

20-25k. If i had the money id spend that easy

Norman Bagi

My estimate would be $14,000 as a top offer. If I won the lottery, being a Pinto person, I would probably go into the 20's. Having spent more than this on my Pinto, it seems foolish that it would not go for more. Either that or I am a fool.  :surprised:

dga57

I know this is a case of comparing apples and oranges, but I happened upon it in the November 2010 edition of Hemmings Motor News and couldn't resist sharing:

1972 Thunderbird - 771 original miles, 460 CID, red with white landau top, red leather interior, always garaged, still has plastic covers on rear seat belts, $20,000.  NY

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dga57

Quote from: Original74 on October 02, 2010, 05:01:54 PM
I know it is just a Pinto, but I have confidence that being just a Pinto makes it that much more unique, know what I mean?


I didn't say "just a Pinto", Dave! :lol:   I DO understand what you mean and I do agree with you.  Because of the Pinto's lowly status new, it is doubtful anyone tucked one away as an investment, and that does indeed make one like Jade all the more unique.  When I started selling cars in the mid 1970's, my first job was with a Dodge dealer who had been a Studebaker dealer prior to Studebaker's demise.  He had stashed a brand new (untitled and only twelve miles on the odometer) example of a 1966 Studebaker Daytona in his garage.  This was a truly rare car because only a few thousand of them were built that last year and production was ceased mid-model year.  I don't know how well he did or didn't do with his investment, but think how much better his prospects would have been if he'd stashed away an Avanti instead.  I think certain cars (Mustangs, Corvettes, etc.) are always going to be a better investment.  Then too, there's not always any way to account for WHY a car becomes collectible.  The 1957 Bel Air was the top offering from GM's bottom-rung Chevrolet division, but other than excellent styling, there was little else to predict what a classic it would become.  Conversely, I bought the top offering from Ford's top-rung division (Lincoln) in the form of a Collector's Series 1979 Continental and it is essentially worthless today despite having had the distinction of being (at that time) the most expensive American-produced automobile on the market.  I hope you can find the expert you're looking for and that you'll share what he or she has to say.  The evaluation and appraisal of classic cars has always interested me because there are so many variables that come into play.  Good to hear from you too!

Dwayne :smile:

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Original74

I appreciate the comments Dwayne. I need to find someone in the automotive hobby that has experience with low mileage cars of any make/model.

I know it is just a Pinto, but I have confidence that being just a Pinto makes it that much more unique, know what I mean?

I want to think that ANY 32 year old car with 400 miles on it has a good value. But as I stated and you well know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this car is worth only what the right person will give for it.

Good to hear from you friend, hope all is well with you and yours.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

dga57

Interesting question, Dave.  Having seen Jade, I certainly know that she is as close to new as I believe possible.  Still, we're talking Pintos here so we need to be realistic.  With the low mileage examples you noted selling in the $12K range, I would think Jade's ridiculously low mileage could add a $3000-5000 premium for the right buyer.  If it had 400 less miles, and a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin rather than a title, I'd wager it may be possible to get $20-25K out of it.  Just my opinion, other's probably have other thoughts on the matter.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Original74

Pinto Enthusiasts,

As we have recently seen a few low mileage (4,000 to 12,000 mile) Pinto's sell in the $12,000 price range, my question is what do you honestly believe a 430 mile, BRAND NEW 32 year old Pinto is worth?

I realize that anything is worth what the right person will pay for it, and not that the item is truly 'worth' a secific amount.

We, the Pinto community love these little cars like nobody else. My dream is to sell this car to Jay Leno for retirement, for something like $100,000.00!!!!

Laugh with me, but also please think and share your thoughts about what the lowest mileage Pinto knowen to exist is worth to the right person.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver