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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

5.0L vs. 2.3L Turbo

Started by ctpinto, January 17, 2011, 08:52:10 AM

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Pinstang74

After playing with my ole 74 Pinstang for years I've come to believe that there is still no substitute for the good ole cubic inches . Yea ,the 2.3 turbo even with all the goodies is working pretty hard. I had a hopped up 74 2.3L with turbo,50/50 water injection and an 8 inch rear end from 65  Mustang . Even stuffed a 351C/ C-4  and found that still horse power still costs Money in the form of fuel. If you want to go fast ,you'll pay for it in one way or another.
        As far as fun and cost, I was able to get an 89 EFI 2.3L Ford Stang and T-5 trans and replaced all the wiring and tech front to rear into my ole 74 Pinto. I'll have to say it became a real pleasure to play with. The fuel cost was good, the performace was great ( same 2.3L that it had new except it was a better built engine ) same wieght but better HP. It had all the upgrades of an 89 stang with safety features like the inerticia fuel shutoff. The cold starts were great and with the EFI the trips to the mountains was not a problem.
Best part is that everything fit like it was made that way.

Cheeseliner

Thanks Pinturbo. I think ill save a little longer and get the steel bellhousing from Quicktime. I have one other place here close that is looking for a factory one, if he doesn't have it, then ill take the plunge! Thanks. K
75 Pinto Hatchback Runabout. 2.3 EFI Turbo Charged Pinto with C4 and 8 inch 4.11 locker, Front mount IC, NOS, Walbro/T-bars/ Drag Stars

Wittsend

>>>and the turbo cars are not so plentiful (or cheap) around here<<<

I hear you. I live in Southern California and the local Pick A Part receives cars from the 2nd largest city in the nation (L.A.).  That said, I go every month to the 50% off sale and I haven't seen a Turbo Coupe in about a year. The same for a Merkur. There is even a second self serve yard (independent) in the area and I have not seen either there in the same time frame.

I started my Turbo Pinto project back in 2007.  Over the next year and a half I'd find 5 Turbo Coupes and a few Merkurs nearly every time I hit the yards. Then, about the start of 2009 they completely disappeared. It happened that fast.  There have been flukes. I hadn't seen a Merkur in over a year and a half. Then in late 2010 I was in a yard in Orange County (CA, not "Chopperland" NY). Wouldn't you know there were 5 of them. But that is rare. VERY rare.

At least in the greater L.A. area the clock seems to be ticking fast for Turbo Pinto donor parts. Last time I found a Turbo Coupe I snagged the turbo, LA-2 computer, the big VAM and anything else of value.

Tom

71pintoracer

Why in the crap would anyone want to swap in a V8 when a turbo swap is so easy??!!  :lol:   And there are so many cheap T-Birds and Merkurs out there to be had! 
To be fair, I really wanted to go with the turbo 4 but the V8 just kinda fell into my lap, and the turbo cars are not so plentiful (or cheap) around here and you are better off if you have the doner car.
However, when I get plenty of time and money,( :P ) I think I will put a turbo in the '71 and put the V8 in my '77 cruiser.
For now though, I'm happy with the kick-a$$ roar of the V8, smokin the tires through 3 gears, gettin' it sideways at the tap of the throttle, and 12.07 on street tires with a mild roller cam late model 5.0 ain't too shabby!  ;D
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Wittsend

I've done the 2.3T in a 73 wagon.   While I can't account for how easy the Murkur harness is, I can tell you how difficult the 88 Turbo Coupe harness is.  My goal was actually to avoid issues and I elected to retain the TC fuse box as well.  Basically the Pinto wiring and the 2.3T wiring were separate entities.  My setup was somewhat complicated because I also used the TC steering column (and associated wiring). Additionally I used the TC tach adapting it to the Pinto gauge cluster.

That 88 TC harness is a nightmare. I spent days dissecting out the what I "thought" I needed.  I still have 15 or so wires in limbo.  I don't think I need them..., but I'm not sure.  Yes, the car runs (started on the first key turn) but I have issues with it running right.  It runs decent with the spout removed, but plug it in and the car misses all over the place.  Even with it out right about 2,500 RPM I get a miss. I swapped out O2 sensors, TPS, VAM's, computers even the relay box to no avail.

You also mentioned about the trans.  I just reversed the mount (C-4 Auto) and cut slots. The T-5 manual bolted in all be it near the very end of the mount.  Let me add that I originally had a 2.0, C-4 with a 6-3/4" rear. I went to a T-5 with a 8" rear. In one of those, "Wow..., did something actually go right" moments, the original driveshaft fit perfectly!!!

I've included:
a picture of of the harness just to give you a "flavor" of the nightmare.
a picture of the installed harness
a picture of the tach
a picture of the trans mount
Tom

8 BALL

Thank Bigtimmay you are the man!

Bigtimmay

http://www.rothfam.com/svo/reference/88Thunderbird.pdf Thats the engine wiring when using a 88 TC harness there alot of stuff that gets removed cause its not need like the crap for the adjustable struts and all that.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

8 BALL

I checked out the link to Turbo Joe and thats a nice harness but a little out of my budget for right now. Is there a simple diagram for useing the harness out of the 88 T bird?

Pinturbo75

hey cheeseliner,,,,, just a bit of info you might not know..... if you use the adapter and go v8 c4 tranny, you have to have the end of the crankshaft milled out to fit the torque convertor nub into it or you will be stuck....id look for a bellfor a 2.3 if i were you and save the hassle.... it also makes for routing the exhaust much harder with the adaptor..... im runnin g one right now so i speak from experience.....
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Pinto Pro

I will be going the opposite way in the near future. My car has a 400+ HP turbo 2.3, and I will be replacing it with a small block V8.

A small block V8 equipped with aluminum heads and other light weight components can come within a couple pounds of a 4 cyl.

rkk

1976 TURBO PINTO
1969 AMC AMX not a pinto, but I like it, fast for not being a FORD (It's different just like a PINTO)

rkk

Just got to throw a plug in for Joe Morgan (turbo Joe). I got my harness from him.  He is exceptional with customer service and guided me throuugh the whole process.  His Turbo Pinto runs 10 flats with a c4 and if you want to know anything about 2.3 turbo engines he is the man.  You can googgle turbo Joe and you should be able to find his website.  When I got my harness from him it was probably a 20 minute install just plug it in and go.  If you don't unsderstand he will even give you his cell number to help guide you through it.  Loves to talk cars great guy. It is a little pricey at about $700.
1976 TURBO PINTO
1969 AMC AMX not a pinto, but I like it, fast for not being a FORD (It's different just like a PINTO)

Cheeseliner

CT, i had a nice 302 with the GT40S heads on it, nice cam Holley and all the cosmetics bolted up to a strong C4 with a stall and a kit (simple tweekin under the valve body) all ready to drop into my 75. Then i came across my 2.3T. It has about as many "extra options" that the SBF does- either just depends on your wallet. The biggest decision for me to sell the 302 and go with the 2.3 was the ease of install AND the weight. The V-8 weighs about 240lbs more than the 2.3 and was (with the inner cooler) similar (just a few less) than the 302. My problem now lies with the tranny. The 2.3T that i have is bolted to a T5 tranny (which i don't mind using, if i could find the clutch pedal) or go with the C4 that i have (the car is originally a C3 auto). I did find that Canfeild out of Colorado sell an adaptor plate for the 2.3 to C4 for about $175 - and since i cant find a stock 74 2.3 to C4 bellhousing, OR clutch pedals, that's probably the way I'm going to go. Good luck on your project. 8, Big, RKK, and Fred as well as others in here are a great help! Take care. Kenny
75 Pinto Hatchback Runabout. 2.3 EFI Turbo Charged Pinto with C4 and 8 inch 4.11 locker, Front mount IC, NOS, Walbro/T-bars/ Drag Stars

Bigtimmay

the T3 turbo can be bolted onto the 87-88 motor but some t3s where watercooled and some werent so you might have to block off the water lines that went to the IHI originally depending on which you get.

85-89 Merkur Xr4ti is where the harness comes from, Most people like this harness cause its not tied into everything else like the others are since the car was built out of the country then shipped here and ford dropped the engine harness in and the motor.

My 8.8 is 4 lug same bolt pattern as the pinto/bobcat is originally its out of 87-88 turbocoupe, Auto cars had 3.73 gears and manuals had 3.55 gears.

if your goin 5 lug the 94-98 mustang rear end could be used prolly or even a 95 and up explorer rear end?
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

ctpinto

so could i just swap the t3 turbo onto a 87-88 tbird motor? where do you find the merkur harness? and what did the 8.8 with discs come out of? Is it the five lug stang pattern? Thanks a bunch.
Will

Bigtimmay

Mines Cable i was going to use hydraulic but it would have been tons of work. Im very happy with the cable clutch too its not too stiff but its not just a super soft pedal like most hydraulic setups are.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

8 BALL

THANKS FOR THE INFO BIGTIMMAY,ON YOURS DID YOU LEAVE IT CABLE CLUTCH OR DID YOU CHANGE TO HYDRAULIC?

Bigtimmay

Quote from: 8 BALL on January 19, 2011, 09:51:09 AM
I'M JUST STARTING OUT ALSO. I HAVE A 80 PINTO AND AN 88 TURBO T BIRD.I'M GETTING READY TO DO THE SWAP AND HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.1 WILL THE TRANSMISSION OUT OF THE T BIRD HIT THE FLOORBOARD ON THE PINTO LIKE THE MUSTANG TRANNIES DO? 2.WHERE CAN I GET THE PLUG AND PLAY HARNESS? 3.WILL AN EXTERNAL ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP WORK?


T5 or auto trans? If your talking about the t5trans i have a mustang 2.3 bellhousing and a 88 T5 trans bolted into my bobcat right now. The only thing that hit was the shifter i had to cut a prolly 2 inch piece of metal in the front of the shifter hole out to clear it. Other then that i used the rubber mount that came in the TC and welded a piece of steel plate to the back of the original trans crossmember and drilled holes in it and bolted it all together everthing clears with no issues.

http://www.thedetailzone.com/Ford%20Replacement%20Harnesses.htm

External Fuel pump is what I'm gunna use in mine with a rear sump fuel cell. http://www.jdsperformance.com/index.asp?initemuid=432&fcmd=item&inmake=0 thats the fuel pump I'm using.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Bigtimmay

which turbos better? well thats a personal prefrence me personally im gunna go with the higher in the rpm range it because my car will be raced and street driven and i plan on launching it at higher rpm ranges.

im going to be installing the 8.8 with disc brakes outta my donor TC into my bobcat so ill still have 3.55 gears.

Im gunna install a fuel cell with a rear sump and run a inline 255 walboro should be sufficent enough all the way to 400 hp easy. Later on ill prolly swap in SS braided fuel lines and a new inline adjustable FPR and a new fuel rail but that will be later on.

The detail zone one harness from what i understand you tell them what year car the motors from and they wiring it up for that years ecu. The merkur harness like i have in my car the worste youll have to do is re-pin a few wires on the ecu plug and add a few wires for stuff like the ACT senor.

I have a factory a/c radiator it will be fine for now till i buy a custom aluminum one.ID look into maybe some newer volvo radiators or somthing like that maybe a honda radiator?
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

8 BALL

I'M JUST STARTING OUT ALSO. I HAVE A 80 PINTO AND AN 88 TURBO T BIRD.I'M GETTING READY TO DO THE SWAP AND HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.1 WILL THE TRANSMISSION OUT OF THE T BIRD HIT THE FLOORBOARD ON THE PINTO LIKE THE MUSTANG TRANNIES DO? 2.WHERE CAN I GET THE PLUG AND PLAY HARNESS? 3.WILL AN EXTERNAL ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP WORK?

ctpinto

So which would be better for a street turbo, a faster spool or a higher rpms? Are you keeping your stock rear end in your bobcat? Will you be doing any modifications with the fuel pump for better acceleration? Will those two harness' plug into any of the 2.3t's from the tbird? Have you done any radiator work ? I've switched body panels on my '80 sedan to 72 but the length of the radiator doesn't allow me to bolt on the front valence. Is there a smaller radiator that would still cool the 2.3t?

Bigtimmay

Quote from: ctpinto on January 18, 2011, 07:43:59 AM
Well that's pretty convincing for the 2.3t. My question now is how can you build the 2.3 without going into big $$$. I've worked on a 60's and a 70's mustang with all carbureted motors but I'm not in that price range, plus I like the idea of a small car with a big attitude. Do the 2.3 have computers in them (something i've never worked with) and if so, can you up performance through the computer (aka chip)? What should I run for rear end without killing my fuel mileage? What fuel mileage are you guys getting with your turbos? I'm already using the t5 tranny with my stock 2.3. Why would a non-intercooled engine be a better turbo? And what happened between 85.5 and 86 that made ford drop its hp? Sorry for asking so many questions. I'm younger and I was giving my grandma's ride literally.

Just by putting a 3 inch exhaust on a 2.3T, A Manual boost controller, 255 fuel pump (best to buy this when you do the swap), And a adjustable FPR. you can up the boost some and the Fuel pressure a little bit and i guarantee to would be surprised at how just those few mods push the power up alot and with how little our cars weight the power to weight is crazy.

the new 2.3t are fuel injected and yes they run a computer its a fairly easy swap.Like RKK said theres lots of help here and on turboford on the swap. The best harness to use is a merkur xr4ti harness (what i used in my bobcat) unless you wanna buy a new on from like the detailzone which is a brandnew plug and play harness.

they make chips so you can re-tune the stock ecu quarterhorse is a good one but unless your gunna go way into the mods (aka bigger turbo 20  psi of boost pretty much 300+ hp range) you Can get away without this but it does help alot.These motors can even be switched over to speed density thanks to SVOjohn and his work and writing all the code to do it.Lots of good reading on all of this over on turboford.

My motor and trans came out of a 88TC it had 3.55 rear gears and a T5 i got around 20-25 mpg unless i was on it hard.But that was a car that almost weighs double what my bobcat weighs.

The non intercooled/SVOs have a garret T3 turbo that had a .60a/r cold side and depending on what year of car they could have a .48or.63 a/r hot side the .63 is the biggest and would take a Lil longer to spool but can hold it alot higher in the rpm range.
The 87-88 intercooled turbocoupes used a Borgwarner IHI turbo which is smaller then the garret cause they wanted it to spool faster but it drops off in the rpm range alot faster.  Plus max psi on this turbo is around 18psi anything past that is gunna be outta the usable range both versions of the T3 can go to 22psi maybe a Lil more.

Mostly the reason for the Hp drop between 85.5 and 86 was just a Lil tuning difference in the ecu due to lower octane fuel.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

rkk

I was like you just dealt with carbs on motors and was very skeptical about the whole fuel injection thing.  But I finally But there was so much help on this forum on how to do the swap I went with the turbo motor.  I am so glad I did.  The car runs great, I feel very comfortable with the whole computer thing the fuel injection and the whole process.  I learned a great deal.  My car now runs high 12's with very little done to it.  Just a little more boost, gears and some tuning.  If you want to go the easy route with the wiring harness there are people that sell plug and play harnesses for this swap. My vote go with the turbo and I was always a V8 guy.

1976 TURBO PINTO
1969 AMC AMX not a pinto, but I like it, fast for not being a FORD (It's different just like a PINTO)

ctpinto

Well that's pretty convincing for the 2.3t. My question now is how can you build the 2.3 without going into big $$$. I've worked on a 60's and a 70's mustang with all carbureted motors but I'm not in that price range, plus I like the idea of a small car with a big attitude. Do the 2.3 have computers in them (something i've never worked with) and if so, can you up performance through the computer (aka chip)? What should I run for rear end without killing my fuel mileage? What fuel mileage are you guys getting with your turbos? I'm already using the t5 tranny with my stock 2.3. Why would a non-intercooled engine be a better turbo? And what happened between 85.5 and 86 that made ford drop its hp? Sorry for asking so many questions. I'm younger and I was giving my grandma's ride literally.

Bigtimmay

My opinion-
5.0-Weak block cant hold real amounts of power unless you wanna buy a aftermarket block.
2.3-Extremely strong block.

5.0-tons of bolt on parts
2.3-Some bolt on parts but not as many

5.0-Heavy
2.3-Light

As for the HP of each you can make a 2.3 pull just as much power as a 5.0 easily actually back when the svo was being produced the 2.3 turbo actually made more HP then the V8 cars.

Me personally i wouldn't drop a V8 in unless its a LSX or the new 5.0! But if your really wanting a v8 atleast use a 351w ya its a little bigger width wise but the block isn't a boat anchor.

Oh and as for hp output of a stock 2.3 turbo well it depends on which one you get. The older 83-86 TC had a better turbo but since they weren't intercooled they produced less HP around 145 or so, But the 87-88 TC they were intercooled and the autos produced 150 but the 5 speeds where around 190. then you have the 84-85 svo they produced around 175. The 85.5 svo put out 205 and the 86 svo put out 200hp.

I love my 2.3t i wouldn't have it any other way. I love beating a v8 and the when they asks what its got under the hood i get to tell them a Lil old 4cylinder.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

r4pinto

If this tells you anything a turbo Pinto can smoke a 302 Pinto. They weigh less & have more horsepower than a standard 4 cylinder. The normal Pinto 2.3 generally only has about 80 to 90 HP. I don't know the specs for a 2.3 turbo but if it is anything like the Chrysler 2.3 turbo it's probably around 150 or so.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

ctpinto

I know this has been a big debate for an engine upgrade. I always thought that stock these two motors had close performance, 2.3 Turbo just had better fuel mileage and easier to install. But I went on the government page for fuel mileage ratings and they same those two engines were much closer than i thought. What's is the real benefits from the turbo or the 302? I'm trying to decide which way to go. Thanks.