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Need 2.3 timing cover
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ENGINE COMPLETE 1971 PINTO
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1974 Pinto Drivers door glass and parts

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Wheel cap
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Center armrest for 1979 pinto . Possible anyone who makes them of has one for sale
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76 pinto sedan sbc/bbc project for sale $1700 obo

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1971-73 2.0 motor moiunts
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1971 Pinto Parting out

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

WTB: Pinto Parts see listing for info.

Started by r4pinto, August 24, 2004, 05:14:21 PM

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BlueGoldPinto

My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

quickrick

bluegold a0nd pintoman,  I just drove home a 79, so add that to the list!
TYDEKE MOTORSPORTS
Tricky Ricky Chop Shop                                       
(740) 701-2908   
Chillicothe, Ohio 45601

quickrick

bluegold a0nd pintoman,  I just drove home a 79, so add that to the list!
TYDEKE MOTORSPORTS
Tricky Ricky Chop Shop                                       
(740) 701-2908   
Chillicothe, Ohio 45601

BlueGoldPinto

Hey, Post some pics when your done, I'd love to see it! ;D
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

r4pinto

Got all the parts I'm needing... Thanx to jesse for most the parts, and pintoman for the engine... Now I can start working on my Pinto more seriously... She'll be running good in no time, and among those Ohio Pintos on the road.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

pintoman

Yea i have a 80,i'm in columbus.There are two more 79's and a 78 here in columbus and there is a 80 in Circleville.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

BlueGoldPinto

hey, a 78 in Reynoldsburg,one in Chillicoth, and I have a 78 in Wooster.How strange!!!! Any other Ohioans out there?
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

Jesse

Losin sux  -> I took the windshield rearview mirror out of the car today.  It is in very good shape, could almost be brand new from the factory.  20$ + shipping sound good to you?

-The dome light cover has no cracks or anything but there is a brown burn mark in the center of it, probably made when a lightbulb blew inside it.  my car doesnt have the map light option.  Its pretty much a 1 and a half inch square.  Not sure if its what your looking for or not.  If it is, i'll just throw it in with the mirror for 2$.


R4pinto->  Yeah, i thought the distance would be a problem for big items like motors.
-Interior door panels--> they are an avocado/lime green color with fake wood trim going along them.  The rear trim panels also have this wooden trim with built-in ashtrays.  The rear vinyl has faded from its original avocado color somewhat to a lighter green.  The wood trim is exclusive to bobcats, so you probably would want to buy both interior panels and both rear interior panels for everything to match.

-I'm suprised at the condition of my driver door sill plate.  The passenger side one is a hunk of rust while the driver side one is quite nice.  Even the blue ford emblem in the middle looks good.  Very good condition.

-Got the automatic shifter and trim for it.  The shifter is nicely polished chrome and the trim is black.  Shifter and trim in real good condtion.

-I dont think i have power brakes so the master cylender is likely no good to you.

-The gas cap is good.  Its just primer grey, youll probably want to paint it to match your car.  (or just spray paint it black or something)


You should probably get a look at the interior first before you buy to make sure the color is right (i gotta borrow someones digital camera)  its not exactly mint contdition either (the rear panels are sun faded, but no cracks or anything).  The sill plate, gas cap, and shifter i can assure you are all in great shape.


Email me at noggins_1500@hotmail.com and i'll just sell it all together as a package.  We'll work out a price.

r4pinto

Hey jesse, with the distance from ohio to Canada I won't be able to get the motor from ya, as I can't get up there, but I am interested in the other parts that I listed above...
interior door panels
driver side door sill plate- metal plate at bottom of door frame
Automatic trans shifter & trim panel
master cylinder- if power brakes
gas cap
rear quarter panel interior trim panel- left

Let me know if ya got em, and any pix if you can

Thanx.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Jesse

I have both those parts, ill get pics for you soon so you can make sure the dome light cover is the right kind.  Both parts are in pretty good shape.

losin sux

Hey Jesse if you are looking to really part this out I could use a couple parts if they are in REALLY nice shape.  I am looking for a windshield rearview mirror (my mirror has several big blotches) and the white plastic dome light cover (with the longer sides) which seems to only be on cars which had the map light option.  LMK
77 HB 2.3 C3 3.40

r4pinto

I am needing the following for my car with prices:

interior door panels
driver side door sill plate- metal plate at bottom of door frame
Automatic trans shifter & trim panel
master cylinder- if power brakes
gas cap
rear quarter panel interior trim panel- left.

Thanx :D
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Jesse

-The rims have a bit of mild surface rust on them (steel wool or sandblast would get rid of that pretty quick).  Theres 4 good tires on the rims with about 85% of their tread left.  With tires=150$, without tires=120$ (it costs 5 bucks to get the tires off.)

-I'm not exactly sure which part of the radio you mean when you say radio trim.  My radio is AM only, no FM.  Its the original green color of the interior.  All the rest of the interiror is green.  Its complete, i havent sold any interior parts yet so whatever part you need i probably have 1 of.  The car originally came with only 1 chrome mirror which i have.  (and the rearview mirror on the windshield if thats what you meant).

r4pinto

Since I originally wrote the post I got the hubcaps, but still need the steel wheels.. How much for the ones you got? Also, how much for the radio trim?

What other interior parts you got, and what color are they?

How bout the mirrors?
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Jesse

also, i have 4original rims and 4 original hubcaps (rims could use a sandblast, hubcaps are in very good shape.) 2 doors ( a little rusty on the bottom) and ill sell my whole AM radio.

Jesse

Have a 2.3L engine and auto trans with 37,000 miles.  Runs quite nicely, im in PEI, canada.  its out of a 74 mercury bobcat but i think the motor should fit.

quickrick

Matt,  I have a set of factory aluminum slots with good tires and THREE center caps. The wheels are very good condition, the tires are definately useable and the centercaps are fair (chrome is rough). The best part is I'm in Chillicothe, which is less than an hour south of you! $200.

Also I have a 1980 that has some rust on the bottom of the doors but they are very usuable.Complete (glass,etc) $150 for the pair or $100 and your complete doors.

I will have to check, I probably have the dash piece you need.

sorry no pics available. If any of this interest you, contact me.  Rick
tydeke@adelphia.net
(740)701-2908
TYDEKE MOTORSPORTS
Tricky Ricky Chop Shop                                       
(740) 701-2908   
Chillicothe, Ohio 45601

r4pinto

How much you want for them?? Also how much to ship to Reynoldsbirg Ohio 43068
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

turbopinto72

Matt, I have a set of original steel wheels ,tires ( not factory) and hub caps that were original equipment on 71-74ish Pintos.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

r4pinto

Well,

I got the instrument cluster, so I just need everything else that's listed...

Also a set of 4 steel wheels with hub caps... I've decided this is the look I want.

Thanx,
Matt
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Hey all, I need some parts

I'm looking for the following:

radio face for AM/FM radio
2.3 L engine
Auto trans for 78 Pinto
2 doors in good condition
Instrument cluster for 78 Pinto

I don't know the cross references for these parts, so whatever years interchange with 1978 is ok with me. Be sure to let me know what you have, where you're located, and how much for the part

Thanx
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress