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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

So what DOES a $1500 Pinto look like?

Started by discolives78, July 24, 2009, 11:58:18 AM

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Pinto Pro

Quote from: Pale Roader on July 29, 2009, 07:43:40 AM
Pinto pro, thats a damn nice lookin' Pinto you got there.

Thats the exact look i'm going for on mine. Except with really wide tires, flat black paint and fulla dents...
LOL...then its the exact opposite!! ;D

This car is 100% rust free, runs and drives, but I have no use for it...it just sits. I have too many projects.

dholvrsn

The more would be merrier because I'm trying to convert my '79 into a faux-'80.

Not that there's much of a difference.....
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

blink77

Doug
Which ones do you need? The rears are gone, and I dought
that I could get the front ones off, but I have others if
you need.
Bill

dholvrsn

I'm interested in the rubber bumper corners if they're still good.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

blink77

Doug
It was bought new by a freind of mines mother. she lived on a dirt
road that they salted in the winter and brined in the summer for
dust. She lived 3 miles from Saranac, and just took it to town.
she is gone now, and it sat behind her barn in a field for 3 years,
and then in a dirt floor barn for another 5 years. It has a lot of
good parts, but the body and under side are not them. The rear hatch
is very nice, but that is the only body part I'll be saving.
Bill

dholvrsn

Quote from: blink77 on July 28, 2009, 05:32:19 PM
Sat. I bought an 80 pinto wagon for $200.00. It is rusted up
to windows. It has 23,000 actual miles.

Makes me wonder how such a low milage Pinto can get so rusty.

Shame it's an '80 too. My favorite year...
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Pale Roader

Pinto pro, thats a damn nice lookin' Pinto you got there.

Thats the exact look i'm going for on mine. Except with really wide tires, flat black paint and fulla dents...

turbo74pinto

chuck, i agree with blink77.  i cant belive you still have it.  it seems to be well worth every penny.

bob

ps. i wouldnt mind a stock pinto as a driver.  maybe itll still be for sale when money comes back around...
Take a job big or small, do it right or not at all.

blink77

Sat. I bought an 80 pinto wagon for $200.00. It is rusted up
to windows. It has 23,000 actual miles. It is in the worst
shape (rust) that I have ever seen. The upper control arms
are skeletons. The good part is it runs with gas out of a
Pepsi bottle,as the tank was rusted,and held in by a ratchet
strap. It also has almost all of the plastic int. parts in very
good shape, tan in color. The dash pad is perfect, but only
fits 79-80. $200.00? It was worth every penny!!!!! Chuck-I think
your car was fairly priced. Maybe, just a bad economy, or a
stroke of luck that YOU STILL HAVE IT!!!! Good luck in whatever
way it turns out.
Bill

Useless

I paid $350 for my Pinto ('71 trunk model, 1600 4-speed) two months ago maybe. I'd say it's in fair/poor, but overall solid and complete condition. Cracked dash, ripped front seats, sagging headliner, rust behind the rear wheels and a little in the floors. It does run well and has good tires.

The asking price was $450, I might have gone $400 on it, but the owner called me back and offered it to me for $350 before I had a chance to. It had been for sale locally for a year or more, was on craigslist for 2-3 weeks with no bites before I got to it.

71pintoracer

Hey Chuck, did you see some of the other Pinto's for sale on e-bay? A teal green '78 with a $1400 buy it now, bid was at $900 when the auction ended and did not meet reserve. Didn't look as good as yours and the owner said he had $2500 invested. (???) (In Va. close to me!)
A sad looking and rusty non-running '73 with a starting bid of $500 and no bids.
A real nice yellow '79 wagon with a $1,000 starting bid and a $4500 BIN
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

blupinto

As many of you already know my '74 was $800 and I traded my Rickenbacker 330 and $100 for my '73 wagon. I couldn't put all the sellers were asking down right away, but they both understood and worked with me so I was very fortunate and the cars were meant to be mine, otherwise either deal wouldn't have worked out. In my eyes Pintos are very worthy cars- either you or someone you know/knew had one and they can bring back memories. Pintos will have their day. I (finally!) found a Hemmings mag that featured the lil' green Squire (man was that car gorgeous!) so don't be surprised if that piques the interest in other car collectors. I get a lot of positive reinforcement whenever I drive my Ford girls. Just you wait. Pinto's time will come. You also have to remember- in the end anything is worth what someone's willing to pay for it.  :-\
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pinto Pro

This is what a $1500 Pinto looks like!!




discolives78

Thanks for the input guys! :)

I know my car is much nicer now than when I got it 6 years ago. It didn't run and was full of trash, and well, very used looking. I paid $300 for it. It seems a shame that now, after all the work, its worth no more in the shape it's in. :( I tried to stack mine up against what is for sale locally. Like I said, I've seen them start high and go low or be re-listed for what seems like months. I'd look to pay like half of what this guy wants:

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/cto/1258671128.html

But that's his price. The car has been listed a few times now. I'd only jump if it was an auto at this point though. My car seems like just as good of a value head to head, it's just lacking the 'cool appeal' of the cruiser.

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

dholvrsn

A $1500 Pinto looks three times as good as a $500 Pinto and twice as good as a $750 Pinto, but only half as good as a $3000 Pinto....  ;D
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

75bobcatv6

I paid 800 for my Bobcat. and it is in good condition. but i also got it from family. i know What i would pay for a car like Chucks. 1600-1800 is what i would expect to pay for one as nice and well cared for as his.

russosborne

Well it isn't within the 6 months, but just about 1 year ago that I bought mine.
1979 Hatchback,2.3 auto, no power anything, not even a radio. But it did have almost new brakes and exhaust. Lots of qtr panel, door, and hood rust, but floorboards good. Runs good, I drive it 32ish miles each way to work most days(except when I get to drive the wife's 07 Taurus with a/c).
I bought it off of a Craigslist add, turned out to be a guy from this group, his name was either Seth or Sean(sorry, can't remember) who also had a pro street Bobcat and was moving out of state.
He had it for sale for a while at around $700, no takers. I ended up paying six hundred something, again don't remember exactly.

This was by far the best car for under $1000 that I had seen, I wasn't even thinking Pinto, but the shape it was in sold me.

It really comes down to timing. You need to have a Pinto for sale when someone is looking for a Pinto in order to get decent money, otherwise you get someone like me looking for cheap transportation, not the vehicle of their dreams. :-)

But hey, a 1969 Mustang in the same shape as my Pinto would be selling for at least double. Most likely three or four times. So I own a Pinto, but I can at least work on it myself.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Pale Roader

Pinto's are really neat 'n all, my favorite little car, but they'll never be worth much in my opinion. Around here there have been giveaways that nobody wanted. That 76 2.3, 4spd hatch i've been talking about in other threads was in nicer shape than mine, ran well, very little rust, and the guy couldn't give it away. In the end he begged me to give him $200, but i couldn't even come up with that, so his friend took it 'on payment' to swap a V8 into, and a year later its trashed and in the junkyard. My cool lil MPG 76 trunk 4spd Pinto sat on  a very busy street, right up to the road with a forsale sign for a month... i got it for $300. I've seen others, but they're either later ones (i didn't check 'em out) or some V8 swap that some crackhead wanted five digits for (not nice swaps). A couple years ago some nice old guy offered me a cherry 72 trunk car, in apparently beautiful shape, low miles, for $500. Said he couldn't sell it and if i didn't want it he was giving it to the high school.

I was thinking ov selling mine last year, and i was gonna ask $1000, but my car runs very well, is a trunk model, and has cool looking 17" rims and Z-rated tires on it. It also looks better than any other pinto i've personally seen. Most people dont even know what it is. It would have sold for that.


Thats how it is here. This is racing/hotrod country. People building cars everywhere. Pintos just dont get the love...

75bobcatv6

and what fred is asking for either of those cars i would pay. I plan on getting the 76 wagon=) see ya soon fred.

Fred Morgan

Hi Chuck I have a 74 beater runabout I use to go 8 miles to ship parts often. It would need a lot of money pumped into it to make it nice, I would want $500.00 for it. I have a clean all stock 76 Bobcat wagon has not been reg. since 99 was going to say $1400.00 but it will need all rubber and fluids changed so I would ask $1000.00.  Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

discolives78

Seems within reason, Phil.

There were 2 Pintos here on craigslist recently. A 74 same body/mechanics and color as mine. Started at $1000 and dropped to $750 before dropping off the radar. Then there was a 79 wagon that started at $1200 and dropped to $800. Both of these needed much more work than my car. There's a 72 in Las Cruces for $1000 that 'needs everything', that's not encouraging, is it? I did spend a couple days looking thru e-bay, craigslist, etc, and seeing what they were listed for before I listed mine, and I did drop the price, but to no avail. I got more e-mails offering me insurance quotes on my 'next' from my ads than people actually asking about the car! There was a C/W on craigslist a few months back for $1450 (had been re-listed a few times) was silver with no paint on hood or roof. :(


Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

phils toys

in my area a 78 squire wagon sold on ebay for $1800  pic looed good but was lised as had some rust.
locatin nw pa/sw ny area and it was taken to virgina.
there is also a 80 crusin wagon for sale (3 yrs) wants 3200 started at 5500
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

discolives78

I'm asking, not telling!

As most of you know, I tried to sell my car recently and it didn't go. I tried to advertise it at what I consider 'market' value. Not Blue Book, not dealer trade-in...just around what similar Pintos seem to be selling for. I guess I either got it wrong, or they just aren't selling right now.

I know the economy is a factor. A lot of people will be turned off from a 'project' or 'hobby' car when money is tight. I also know that body style, mechanical configuration and popular options also factor in.

So the question is:

If you bought or sold a Pinto in the last 6 months, what was the 'agreed' price? The actual amount of money the car sold for, not asking price or 'percieved' value is what I'm looking for. I'd also like to know the body style and a simple condition: Poor, Fair or Good

If you think this isn't any of my business, send me a PM telling me why. If you want to share, but think your number will affect the market, you can PM me. Please don't chime in about why or why not this information is relevant. We have had discussions about what our cars are insured for, Blue Book, and what we think they 'should' be worth elsewhere. I'm just trying to put a finger on the 'pulse' of the market.

I know we all want the cars to be collectible and appreciate in value. This isn't about whether the cars are worth restoring or how much we should spend on them, that's a personal decision. :)

Don't put out my fire here, please, as I'm just curious. If you have another standpoint I should consider, I'm all ears. Like everyone else, I don't want to be shot down because of a 'pie-in-the-sky' price, and I'd like to know what they actually go for before I purchase another one. Who wants to pay $5,000 for a $500 car?

Respectfully...
Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.