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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2.3 question

Started by demoiowa89r, August 27, 2008, 01:23:13 AM

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demoiowa89r

thanks everyone for your help. i'm lost when it comes to ford's..
Proud owner of a 74 pinto sedan. NON-DERBY
a 78 hatch. derby car.
a 73 wagon. derby car.

fomogo

Honestly... I would run the thickest cheap synth oil I could find at the stock level.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

demoiowa89r

i would run one, but some derbies either dont allow them or they have to be in a practically bullet proof box....if i ran it in the engine capartment i'm affraid it would get smashed and might risk catching on fire... would putting in a extra1/2 quart to a full quart help.. i know some guys do it to there sbc's but they are built to the hilt. also would thicker oil work?
Proud owner of a 74 pinto sedan. NON-DERBY
a 78 hatch. derby car.
a 73 wagon. derby car.

fomogo

The ones I am talking about are the ones that sandwich between the oil filter and the block... with coolant lines going to them.
There is not really enough surface area on them to effectively make much difference in oil temp, but there is enough to make a difference in coolant temp. Oil retains heat a LOT better than water/coolant.
On my turbo engines I remove the oil/water cooler, and I also remove the water lines to the turbocharger.
The water/oil cooler makes more strain on the cooling system, and the water lines to the turbo do next to nothing.
I run my engines a bit harder than most and have experienced no loss in durability, and the engines are easier to make run cool.
For towing or a performance application, an air/oil cooler works amazingly well.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

FCANON

Not to Disagree with you but what I have on my three Turbo motors are water cooled oil adapters... the one off the 400M is a stand alone oil only cooler...
If yours is different Jim please share what car you got them off of...Lots of Member can use these on Tow vehicles to race cars..as long as you have room and a FL1A filter.
My TC motors are 88 and 87. and I have a Merkur motor Unknown vintage other than it was a XR4TI...

Keep On Rockin
FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

fomogo

That same cooler is found on the 2.3 turbo.
I may have 1 or 2 laying around.
I always take them off and run a seperate stand alone air/oil cooler.
It works better and I dont have 250 degree oil heating up my 180 degree coolant ;)
I will see if I can find one of them if you are interested.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

FCANON

Cooling the oil is a very big step...If you can find a old ford truck..some of the 400M's had Oil bypass behind the filter for a oil cooler. I think it was a towing package deal...
any ways it will go right on the 2.3 Lima and uses the FL1A oil filter.
Take the filter off with a LARGE  wrench remove the center bolt and keep the bolt the bypass housing will come off ...then you can put a oil cooler on your 2.3 cheap...
Doing the same on my Daughters pinto...

No Need for apologies..welcome to the Pinto Family

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

demoiowa89r

whoa.. sorry about starting a fight with my question. but you guys answered my question and then some. from what i take it will give a little bit on the bottom end which im looking for and the roller cam with give it a little bit more durability.. thats kinda what i'm looking for.now is there anything that i can do to help reduce the power loss when it get hot.. i'm talking about 215-250.
Proud owner of a 74 pinto sedan. NON-DERBY
a 78 hatch. derby car.
a 73 wagon. derby car.

FCANON

  Does Performance = High RPM? Yes No ..not really!!!
I no where you guys are coming from on the post but to use the word in general you need to describe the driving habits and the goal of the user... then you can have a direction of performance needs...EX:A daily driver that needs performance doesn't need to sling 9k to have performance...

Just trying to make the dialog productive for new people that might not be in the know.
With out being a tool...

FrankBoss


www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

71pintoracer

On another note guys, he wants to build this engine for a derby car. You don't really want a killer cam and an engine that will turn 9 grand unless you run alcohol. For gas you need a stock or near stock cam and low compression so it will restart when the temp is pegged and you can hear the pistons sliding up and down the bores!! I think someone was trying to pawn off a roller by telling him it was bolt on performance. 'Taint so.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

fomogo

One thing to keep in mind when using the dual plug head on a carbed application.
None of your induction parts are going to bolt onto it.
So... if you really want to use it, if or if it doesnt make more power not being touched on here, you will need a custom intake manifold.
Making a proper carbed intake is more than going "here is some pipe and here is the carb... TADA!!!
Its a lot harder to make a good carb intake than it is to make an EFI intake that works.
You have to look at fuel distribution, fuel suspension, and port velocities.
Do it wrong and you have fuel puddling, was rich cyls, way lean cyls, and possibly a blown engine.
So in the end the "cheap performance upgrade"... and the early twin plug heads are not... ends up costing a LOT more for it to work properly, than MANY other avenues that are proven to work well.

And as a side note... if you use the dual plug head in an EFI application you have work to do also... because the intake manifold was designed to make good tq and hp up to around 4500 rpm.
Nice for a pick up truck... not so much if you want performance.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

77turbopinto

Quote from: CHEAPRACER on September 08, 2008, 11:15:12 PM
Quote from Boport (turboford.net)
Head #12 Used from 19??-?? in the Ford Ranger. Referred to as the "Late" Dual plug head, Ford's last shot at a cast iron 8 valve 4 cylinder head to keep up with the high technology coming out of Japan. It was similar in design to the above dual plug head, however the intake ports and combustion chambers were redesigned once again slightly. The intake and exhaust valve stem size was decreased to 7mm for a lighter valvetrain mass. The spring and retainer size was decreased as well for the same purpose. This head also had a multi-angle valve job that was done fairly well IMO.. This combination netted the best factory airflow numbers of all the 2.3 heads I have tested, however the potential of a true high performance head is very limited in my opinion and the older designs of the head have much more power potential given the same amount of modification. unquote


Sounds like there is a stock vs. modified comparison that can be made here.

Great quote from Bo, BUT what you posted was him talking about the 1995 head (the year they went to 7mm), and as I recall:

Quote from: Fred Morgan on September 08, 2008, 06:11:31 PM
I had the 94 ranger eng. in a 73 runabout that had 1.6 + 4spd. after that 1 crashed I instaled in 71 that had a 1.6 + 4spd. after that 1 crashed, it is sitting on floor waiting for me to make a 78 hatch look like a 73 hatch.  Fred   :accident: hate that when that happens

Fred was using the 1994.

I still sincerely DOUBT that anyone swapping to that head, and USEING LITTLE OR NO OTHER modifications to the engine will FEEL anything different. It might show up on a track or dyno as being 'better', but for whats involved in making it work for a carb. set-up, it would be better for someone looking for "performance" to spend the time and effort elsewhere.

I also have information from other engine people that have different opinions on what 2.3 head to use fully stock and what ones to use if they are to be modified, and that none of them were all that great to start with (sort of a 'what skunk smells the least' kind of a thing).

To make a blanket statement about a part being a "performance" one and NOT knowing why it is, or caring about those details is not very helpful. There is no doubt in my mind that Fred felt more power in the car(s) that he used that engine in, but to say the head did any part of that with ALL the other things that could have been factors and were different is irresponsible. 


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbopinto72

I would say that Boport should know a thing or 2 about 2.3 heads.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

CHEAPRACER

Quote from: 77turbopinto on September 08, 2008, 08:12:43 PM
Am I to understand that you were giving advice on that head being a 'performance part' when you don't know the details about the cars you put it in?? Good way to waste other peoples time and money.

IMHO: The perfomance gains you felt were not due to the head you used, as the 8 plug head is well known for being one of the worst flowing ones (stock). Based on what you stated, your 'gains' were most likely due to different gearing in the tranny and/or rear axle, or the engine being in better condition.

Bill

Quote from Boport (turboford.net)
Head #12 Used from 19??-?? in the Ford Ranger. Referred to as the "Late" Dual plug head, Ford's last shot at a cast iron 8 valve 4 cylinder head to keep up with the high technology coming out of Japan. It was similar in design to the above dual plug head, however the intake ports and combustion chambers were redesigned once again slightly. The intake and exhaust valve stem size was decreased to 7mm for a lighter valvetrain mass. The spring and retainer size was decreased as well for the same purpose. This head also had a multi-angle valve job that was done fairly well IMO.. This combination netted the best factory airflow numbers of all the 2.3 heads I have tested, however the potential of a true high performance head is very limited in my opinion and the older designs of the head have much more power potential given the same amount of modification. unquote


Sounds like there is a stock vs. modified comparison that can be made here.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

CHEAPRACER

When we are being told the the Ranger roller is not a performance upgrade, are we comparing this to a stock "Pinto" cam or the higher lift, then the Pinto, Turbo Coupe cam??? I do read most of the comparisons are done with the TC but never with the older low lift Pinto.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

FCANON

Any time I can help....:)

Yes From me...

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

77turbopinto

Quote from: FCANON on September 08, 2008, 08:15:41 PM
OK boys Play Nice...

FrankBoss

From you??

Fine, from now on when I see miss-information given I will keep to myself and let other members suffer.




Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

FCANON

OK boys Play Nice...

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

77turbopinto

Quote from: Fred Morgan on September 08, 2008, 07:35:33 PM
Thats right did not know and did not care. Fred   :)

Am I to understand that you were giving advice on that head being a 'performance part' when you don't know the details about the cars you put it in?? Good way to waste other peoples time and money.

IMHO: The perfomance gains you felt were not due to the head you used, as the 8 plug head is well known for being one of the worst flowing ones (stock). Based on what you stated, your 'gains' were most likely due to different gearing in the tranny and/or rear axle, or the engine being in better condition.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Fred Morgan

Thats right did not know and did not care. Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

77turbopinto

Quote from: Fred Morgan on September 08, 2008, 06:11:31 PM
I had the 94 ranger eng. in a 73 runabout that had 1.6 + 4spd. after that 1 crashed I instaled in 71 that had a 1.6 + 4spd. after that 1 crashed, it is sitting on floor waiting for me to make a 78 hatch look like a 73 hatch.  Fred   :accident: hate that when that happens

So your telling me you don't know what the rear axle gears were between the cars?


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Fred Morgan

I had the 94 ranger eng. in a 73 runabout that had 1.6 + 4spd. after that 1 crashed I instaled in 71 that had a 1.6 + 4spd. after that 1 crashed, it is sitting on floor waiting for me to make a 78 hatch look like a 73 hatch.  Fred   :accident: hate that when that happens
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

dick1172762

Go to the last pages of the online "Racer Walsh" catalog and read all about the different heads and intakes made for 2300's.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

FCANON

The Head Fred is referring to is has the Heart shaped combustion chambers and is much more efficient than the old oval and none fuel injection D Port heads, even when your not using the extra set of spark plugs...
the Early D port head is better for low end flow due to the reduce port area and the Flat base reduces Fuel from puddling in the ports. So in day to day driving the D port will out perform the old Oval port will out flow the modern heads at WOT.

I do like the Intake Fred has worked up. I haven't see enough of that!

The 2.3L head is a wimp on the Exhaust side even with port work and over sized valves  we had seen more damage done than gains. But for all the 2.3L heads you can cut the valve guide back in the pocket 1/2 a inch to open up the exhaust port.
And idea we took from the RHO sold in the early 90's.

FrankBoss




www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

2.3stangii

I've learned From my own experience trying to run a carb on an 8 plug head that a pinto intake will not fit onto the head at all.
The intake runners will come out at the spark plug holes. You could do what I did and make a metal plate to cover the plug holes but even then I had to drill and tap 4 holes to hold the intake on because NONE of the 8 plug intake bolt holes line up with an older intake.  the intake is only held with 4 bolts (maybe you can come up with a better design).

its just not worth the time. For starters the #1 and 4 cylinders will only have about a half inch opening for air flow (unless you port the hell out of it). My car runs but won't idle because It leaks like crazy.
Your better off getting a D port 4 plug head. Or doing what Fred did and make your own intake. (I don't have the skill myself)
78 Pinto wagon
74 Mustang II
78 Cobra II

77turbopinto

Quote from: Fred Morgan on September 08, 2008, 02:43:59 PM
Bill a little larger intake. I dont know if valves are diferent. But I do know from driving stock 2.3 74 and driving the 71 with 94 ranger + 5spd. there is big aceleration diference and top speed.  Fred   :)

What tranny did the 74 have (A/T or M/T, if the latter: what gears)? What rear axle gears did each have? These things will make a big difference, maybe more than what an intake alone would do. Valves are the same. Also, IIRC: There is better than a 300lb difference between the two cars, the 71 being the lighter.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

fomogo

Then there were other issues with the stock head/cam.
I choose and run the early heads due to the oval port.
I like the ranger cam because it is a roller and shouldnt wipe a lobe.
The roller head is a dual plug and the stock pinto intake isnt compatible with that head.
If you look at the specs on the stock roller cam... it is actually a very mild cam.
It makes decent lower end power but runs out of steam up top.


Jim
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Fred Morgan

Bill a little larger intake. I dont know if valves are diferent. But I do know from driving stock 2.3 74 and driving the 71 with 94 ranger + 5spd. there is big aceleration diference and top speed.  Fred   :)
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77turbopinto

Quote from: Fred Morgan on September 08, 2008, 09:57:17 AM
89 and older are the round port. 8 plug head 90 + D port. Use the ex. side plugs with 74 2.3 mustang dist. with points. Fred

86 to 88 are round port, the 8 plug heads have their own port shape, not round, not oval, and not 'D' shaped.

BTW: You claim the "roller head is higher performance"; Why??

Bill
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Fred Morgan

89 and older are the round port. 8 plug head 90 + D port. Use the ex. side plugs with 74 2.3 mustang dist. with points. Fred
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/