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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Windshield gaskets available? HORRIFIC find - this SUCKS.

Started by popbumper, July 15, 2008, 08:52:52 AM

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popbumper

Ironman:

  Will do. I am in the process right now of lining up a shop space (found 1200 sq ft of shop for $450/month about 5 miles away, am working wioth some other car guys to line it up). As soon as the car is in there (2 weeks or so), I will start some major dismantling, because I cannot get that involved with the car out in my driveway.

  If you have not, please check out a previous thread of mine calle "rust likes to hide", where I show some before and "during" pics of floor pan repair. I have yet to post the final pics (this weekend), it turned out great.

  If there is anything I can do to help you, my knowledge may be somewhat limited (I'm no welder, but WANT to learn), but at minimum I can give you moral support and share my own experiences!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Ironman

Hey Chris,

the last couple days I havnt had time to work on it,.. I bought a light rollover 97 S-10, I've got to get straightened out enough to make a 1000 mile round trip weekend after next. I found a 71 Sedan fourspeed car that looks like I might drag it home.

When you pull your windshield please post some pics. I'd like to see the proccess. I'm begining to think my window trim is somehow "magicaly" attached,..
I have tried to follow the directions I was given and so far its to no avail. It is however getting looser.  :lol:

Mike
Ironman

popbumper

Quote from: Ironman on July 16, 2008, 10:51:13 PM
Man Am I glad I viewed this post.

Is this POR-15 stuff like rust mort or OSFLO?

Now I understand your reply in my post, saying the kiss of death is rampant,.. I too freaked out when I pulled the gasket for my hatch. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread. I feel there is hope.

Ironman:

  Thanks for joining me here  :lol:. I think hope is all we can cling to, man, this stuff will really surprise you. Not having any experience with rust mort or OSFLO, I cannot make a comparison. I will say, however, that I am exceedingly happy with the POR-15 repairs in my floor pans. The stuff is rock hard, like they promise, and seems quite impermeable to anything once applied.

  On my cowl, I have not yet decided the course of action. My options are:

1) Remove windshield, consider all related damage and address appropriately
2) Leave windshield in, grind out the area as thoroughly as possible, POR-15 all of it, and call it done. Don't know if this is a good solution, but I know the POR-15 would do the job.

The second option is more temporary, though quicker and less costly/time consuming. I guess it really depends on how much I want to engage the issue. Removing the windhield would help me in other ways, because then I could get at my headliner and have more direct access to the dashboard, which needs repainted. I will let evryone know where it goes.

Chris 
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

hellfirejim

I have thread over in projects call project Shur'ta'gul.  Go to the last page or read through it if you want, and see pictures of my "garage" and my "machine shop".

Yes it is frustrating to be surprised with things but what i have found that works for me is to divide the work into small groups and then take one at a time.  Concerning your repairs I would suggest that you do a small spot to gain experience and confidence and then you can tackle a large job.  When you are done the sense of satisfaction is huge.  Most Pinto owners go through this procedure, it just seems to come with working on a 30 year old car.

Hang in you can do this.
jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


dave1987

I wouldn't say that everyone here is blessed with having a place to work on their vehicles. I find myself, more often than not, doing work to my car in the parking lot at work (McDonalds), or at a friends house on his drive way. As long as I bring my own tools I can do quite a bit.

Overhaul and very large tasks, like replacing my carpet, are done at my parents, but I very rarely get to use the garage. The only time my car gets to be covered is when it's parked under the carport at my apartments or rarely when I am working on the car at my parent.

I have rust problems with my little blue Pony too! The last time I washed the car the drying towel got snagged on some flaking paint on the passenger's side quarter panel. Turns out that the metal is so rusted that there are small holes all along the bottom of the quarter panels! My driver's side floor pan....you can see the blue towel I put between the carpet and the pan when you look underneath the car.

I will replace the floor pan eventually, sometime when I can use my dad's garage all day and he'll let me practice with the welder.

As for my quarter panels, those will have to wait until I have the car repainted in the next few years (if I can afford it). I just have to cross my fingers and hope that they don't get to much worse.

My windshield gasket is rotted as well, I'm having a glass shop replace the gasket, but I have to order it as their supplier doesn't carry it. I will be looking at about $80 in labor!

Some things I'm not really comfortable doing myself, like the floor pans and the windshield gasket. But I'm going to tackle the floor pans since reading about so many people replacing their own has eased my nerves and it doesn't look as hard as I make it out to be.  I wouldn't dare deal with as much glass as my windshield and try to suspend it over the car though. I'll leave that one to the professionals!   :P
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Ironman

Man Am I glad I viewed this post.

Is this POR-15 stuff like rust mort or OSFLO?

Now I understand your reply in my post, saying the kiss of death is rampant,.. I too freaked out when I pulled the gasket for my hatch. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread. I feel there is hope.
Ironman


popbumper

Hi guys:

  About two weeks back I posted a thread called "Rust loves to hide", where I found, much to my dismay, that the passenger side floor of the car was quite a bit more rusty than I had imagined. Go back and take a look if you are interested. To date, the interior has been completely removed (well, the carpet, seats, and all padding up to the rear deck). All the rust has been since treated with POR-15, and I have to say, it turned out quite nice (I will post some pics here soon). I found nothing that warranted major welding or cutting. I also have pulled the door panels, to find that the door interiors look pretty solid, though there is one hole in the passenger door, neatly hidden by the rubber seal.

  Aside from that, I bought the car knowing about a pretty long and substantial inner fender hole caused by battery corrosion. This one was obvious, and I did not let it bother me. The hidden surprises are the "fun ones"  :nocool:.

  The cowl "discovery" was just that - my vents were full of leaves, so I took the time to remove the hood of the car and clean the leaves out. In order to get to the drain ends, I opted to pull the driver's fender back - to discover what I showed here today. Quite a dissapointment! I really appreciate the encouragement, after all, that's the point of this forum - to help each other, to share the experiences, to tell the tales. Thanks for those who could offer up suggestions, support or ideas without judgement. In the end, I'll probably go the "Wittsend" route - clean up what I can, do damage control, and move on. Sure, I'd like to have a rotisserie restoration....but that's me. I also like 2.3stang's attitude!!

  I'll keep you posted on my results/progress.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Bipper

Chris,

I can understand your disappointment and frustration when you think you have one thing and it turns out to be something else. I don't really know how to fix sheet metal so I couldn't help you there but I do have a suggestion before you make a decision.
This is not to discourage you in any way but to prevent any other potential surprises down the road with your car. Based on the corrosion you found under the fender I would guess there might be more hidden in other areas of the car. If not that would be great but you don't know until you look around.

I would take out the whole interior of the car, seats, carpet, insulation, door panels, kick panels, plastic panels, spare tire, tailights. This will allow you to see inside the doors and the shell of the car where water could leak in and collect. I would also get a telescoping mechanics mirror and with a flashlight look in every nook and cranny the mirror will fit in. You will find surface rust everywhere on the inside. What I'm talking about pitting, holes, major corrosion. Also look at as many spot welded seams as you can. Sometimes bad corrosion can start at a seam. Try to peel up small sections of the weatherstriping to look for corrosion underneath. I would also take the other fender off to look the cowl area.

Again I hope this doesn't come across as discouraging or negative. This suggestion is  just so you can get a accurate picture of all the rust issues throughout the whole car so you can make the best decision possible as far as to repair it or let it go.

Bob
71 Sedan, stock
72 Pangra
73 Runabout, 2L turbo propane

2.3stangii

Back when I first got my 74 stang I'd never worked on anything that old and didn't know jack about them (I still ain't no know it all). My cowl was rusted much worse than yours even to the point that my wiper motor was only hanging by about an inch of rusted sheet metal, the passenger side was even worse, almost nothing left above the heater core. Well with no skills and no money I took some very thin, easy to bend  sheet metal that was once a roof of a barn. and three tubes of liquid nail and viola! fixed, for the wiper motor I made a bracket out of a bed frame. The rear floors were pretty much gone so I "fixed" that with some pop rivets and the sides of an old washing machine.
Come to think of it Its still holding up today.  8)

It may be halfassed but I'll never sell the car (it was my gramp's) so I'll "fix" it the way I feel like it and drive it till it falls apart. ;D All a hillbilly like me needs is a side grinder, some liquid nail and a full can of bondo. :lol:
78 Pinto wagon
74 Mustang II
78 Cobra II

Wittsend

Chris,
  I think most people agree that your rust is repairable.  While ideally the windshield would be removed and a panel fabricated and welded in, investigate the POR-15 stuff, fiberglass and other forms of repair. A lot of that stuff can be forced up into the windshield rubber. Again, "ideal and acceptable" is a very broad spectrum. Given that the area is "hidden" makes it just that much easier.

Have you pulled the carpet and looked at the floors?  My driver side was rather decent, but the passenger side front was too far gone.   A few pin holes in the rear, but the front I replaced.  I was able to make a nice panel out of a steel computer case.

If that is all the rust you have then I would say short of being an, "Arizona, garaged all its life" car, that is not too bad. My "California" car has surface rust, rust in the same area you do (thought it was not too deep), a rusted out front floor and the rear hatch area (or whatever it's called on a wagon) has significant rust where the seal is glued.  Not quite like the sellers description or the pictures on Ebay.  But, I can accept repairing it, or living with it.

Don't count your car short until you have taken a balanced approach to weighing the good with the bad.  Remember these were "disposable" cars that are in their mid-thirties.  Some TLC is needed.
Tom

popbumper

Pintony:

  You talking about the '72 Runabout in Ennis? Man, I should have saved my money for that one. Nice car, but I don't think it has air - which you HAVE to have around here.

  If I had the money, you'd be on the way here right now.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

popbumper

But what of the involvement beneath the windshield rubber? That is what concerns me most; the only effective route will be to pull that as well and get all the rust. Sounds like a big job. I guess I should have expected it, I was dreaming to think that there would be nothing major. Problem is, I bought a running, driving car, and thought I did OK. Two days after I parked it, brakes went out. Then, I started finding the rust. It gets disheartening. Seems the more I take apart, the more I find  :mad:.

Guys, I appreciate the support. Frank, I did >not< ask you to stop giving suggestions on repair, so please continue and SHARE IDEAS. If you don't, I understand. Please don't confuse passion with drama; yes, I probably went overboard, but the truth is, when I saw this is kicked the wind right out of me. I hope you'll reconsider, it was just hard to hear that.

I really want this car. I paid too stinking much for it in the first place to let it go. More of it is frustration, since I don't have a covered parking place, and the wife is ready for me to send it away on a tow truck. She completely does not understand the motivation at all, and thinks it's a piece of junk/waste of money  :amazed:.

If anyone can share their experiences with similar rust, please do so. I'll try to be drama-free. Sorry for any misunderstanding. I need to calm down before I post. Sadly, this is the only place on planet earth to "share the frustration" - and I am thankful for it.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

TIGGER

Chris, that does not look too bad?  I have seen worse.  They do make a panel bonding adhesive that supposedly works good.  I have seen it used on TV in place of welding.  Else maybe you can find a body shop to weld in a quick patch for you? 

Years ago, when I was in high school,  I was down in the dumps with my 67 Mustang.  I had worked so hard to get it running only to have some lady pull out in front of me and destroy all my hard work.  I moved forward and began to repair it, again, however this time more and more went wrong.  Everytime I fixed something, something else would go wrong or break.  I was so frustrated with it that I wanted to sell it.  I almost did.  In time, I eventually got all the bugs worked out of it .  I am so glad that I still have it.  I guess what I am saying that things may look bad now but if you give it some time and tackle one problem at a time you will eventually have a nice solid car that you will be proud of.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

FCANON

OK..I'll just keep my suggestions on repair to my self.
But thats very repairable.


Enjoy.
FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

popbumper

OK, here's pics of the cowl damage.

Frank: It doesn't matter whether you interpret it as "drama" or not, it may be the option I choose. Regardless, why is it important that your impression of my "drama" is pointed out? I appreciate the feedback, but not the pointed finger. I simply would not accuse someone of drama if they were having an issue that was overwhelming them.

Wittsend: Thanks for the helpful input, I guess what I appreciate most is your comment about "being adequate" - my problem IS that I am a perfectonist, and I want everything right.

Any other inputs welcome.
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

FCANON

<  Anyone interested in rust free fenders, hood, doors, bumpers, running 2.3w/manual, recovered front tan seats, door panels, etc., or a whole car? That's the direction I may be headed.

Chris>
/\
This line is the Drama... explore your resources then ask around for other direction, then make a decision. So some images and you would surprise what help and direction you can get..
I have Ideas...


FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Wittsend

Chris,
  Sometimes I think we get too carried away with what is, "stock, factory etc.."  Yet, that caused the problem in the first place when it comes to repairs. First off my "rust free" California car isn't.  Most never are.  Here in California water still gets into cars through doors, windows and the like. This wets the floors and rusts them out like they were filled with salt water.  While I didn't have rust through like you do, my car was leaking at the same weld seam and necessitated my replacing the passenger floor.

My donor Turbo Coupe I acquired 15 years ago had a 1-1/2" hole in the wheel well from an apparent broken snow chain.  I cut two pieces of fiberglass about 1/2" oversize and one the exact size of the hole.  I then applied this three piece patch with a layer on the outside, inside and the smaller piece in the middle.  Well..., 15 years later the car was just hauled away as scrape and that repair was still rock solid!

So, there are alternatives to replacing sheet metal.  I realize fiberglass repairs are often frowned upon, but if done right can be a significantly easier and time saving repair.

While I have some issues with POR-15 paint (it's not he "powder coat in a can" it's advertised as) their rust repair products may still be helpful for you.  The older I get (51 in a few weeks) the more I realize that adequate is sufficient and perfection results in a short lived compliment.
Tom

FCANON

 well you have the car don't yah?

Are you pulling it all apart or doing this in steps?
Lets see some pic's of this damage.
There's always a way. As long as you enjoy the path that gets you there.

And I feel the no funds or place to work issue...

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

popbumper

Frank:

  Thanks. In answer to your "What's with all the drama"?, it's like this - I don't have the luxury that some of you guys have with a dedicated space, the tools, the knowledge, the money to deal with what I believe is a radical repair. It's not a lot of fun to spend what is really too much on a car that has problems I did not expect; I can deal with minor stuff, but major stuff is something quite different. I suppose that's a dramatic answer, too.

  If you must, paint me stupid  :lost:.

Does that answer your question?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

FCANON

yes its been posted MANY TIMES even in the last 24 hours... autokrafters makes replacement gaskets in the 89 dollar range.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,10031.msg62513/topicseen.html#msg62513
Have a glass guy do the install and hold them responsible for it sealing.

Whats with all the drama.

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

popbumper

Hi all:

  Are windshield gaskets available from any supplier? Please let me know. In short, if not, my car is gone. I found a HORRIFIC structural rust hole in my cowl (pics later) that the fender was hiding. Seems years and years of the car sitting near falling leaves allowed the water to run off the corner of the windshield and neatly pool, eating a nice hole into the cowl. Bad part is, it spreads up under the windshield gasket.

  IF I decide to fix it, it will be a major repair, beacuse the pillar and metal around the windshield will need to be reconstructed/replaced. Personally, I'm not up to the task, meaning I have to line up someone/somewhere to do it. This one has kicked the wind right out of me. I'm much closer to selling the car as is, or parting it. Yup, nice "rust-free" Texas car. Now I know why the driver's side floor gets wet . ARGGGHHHH......

  Anyone interested in rust free fenders, hood, doors, bumpers, running 2.3w/manual, recovered front tan seats, door panels, etc., or a whole car? That's the direction I may be headed.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08