Mini Classifieds

parts needed
Date: 02/20/2017 07:58 am
72 Runabout for Sale- Washington

Date: 02/28/2024 02:07 pm
PINTO TRUNK LATCH & CATCH

Date: 03/23/2018 09:39 pm
77 Cruising wagon Rear cargo light
Date: 10/02/2017 02:16 pm
Front Body parts needed
Date: 02/09/2018 06:09 pm
73 Runabout

Date: 11/20/2017 03:19 pm
1972-1980 Pinto/Bobcat Wagon Drivers Side Tail Light OEM

Date: 04/20/2017 10:10 am
EARLY PINTO CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY
Date: 02/14/2019 06:27 pm
73 2.0 Timing Crank Gear & Woodruff key WANTED
Date: 09/01/2017 07:52 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 591
  • Total: 591
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Front end rebuild? Opinions please!

Started by popbumper, June 24, 2008, 10:29:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

popbumper

Quote from: hellfirejim on June 25, 2008, 07:37:38 PM
Strangely enough you can get complete front end pieces at a good price from a place caled Speedway motors.  The also have all the brake stuff if you need it.  However i will mention i got my new loaded calipers and new brak lines from my local NAPA store.  These guys have been great.

jim

Jim:

  I just wrote Speedway and requested a catalog. Thanks for te heads up.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dave1987

Better they tear now than on the road when you are twenty miles from home! Look on the positive side and keep your chin up! Once you start to make progress on the front end you'll be glad it all happened.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

popbumper

No expectations at all, just want it to be right. Ripped the d$%$ rubber boots tonite when I turned the front wheels to the maximum point. Argghhh! Not a good nite for the car, another thread will follow.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Norman Bagi

Do it all, spend all the money you can.  Just don't expect to increase the value, except for yourself.  Pinto baby! Everything else is 8uII$h1t!

hellfirejim

Strangely enough you can get complete front end pieces at a good price from a place caled Speedway motors.  The also have all the brake stuff if you need it.  However i will mention i got my new loaded calipers and new brak lines from my local NAPA store.  These guys have been great.

jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


popbumper

Where does one find such parts for the front end? Is there a kit available anywhere? Or, does one need to piece together parts from various sources? Any suggestions welcome, thanks.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

75bobcatv6

on my 75 ive been getting all the parts to get the front end totally rebuilt. i have no intentions of entertaining a failure when im driving her about town, so personally if you have the time and the money i would just rebuild it to be safe

popbumper

Good note. The car needs a lube job anyway, so I will get that done. Even though the car has only 65k miles (and is 32 years old), I can't imagine that there is not some deterioration of the ball joints, let alone other mechanical parts Funny part is, it has original shocks - and they are fine.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dave1987

Oh, and the strut rod bushings as Pintony noted!

Every time I get under my fenders I look at mine and think of how badly they need to be replaced. :(


One more thing to take a look at would be the ball joint boots. Add grease to your ball joints and watch to see where the weep from. Then take it for a test drive, and jack the car up when you're done to check how much grease is still in them.

I found out that my driver's side lower ball joint boot is blown out and I am having both sides replaced at Les Schwab this summer.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

popbumper

Ask yourself this first. Is the car worth it to you?

>>YUP, it's definitely worth it, I plan to keep my piggie bank for a while  :cheesy_p:

I myself would be thrilled to do it to my own Pinto, but I drive it every day and I would hate to wreck it due to a suspension failure. My A-arms are rusty to, but deffinately still solid, as are my springs.

>>I am entertaining pulling a front end off of another parts car, refurbing it all, then doing a swap

The hole in the battery tray I would fix for sure, just to keep rust form eating away are more and more of the car as time passes.

>>I WISH it was a hole in the battery tray. The "hole" is actually the inner fender, there's a reasonable amount of involvement

Replace the shocks and the bushings, concerned brake line sections, rebuild the brakes with new calipers and pads, and even new rotors if they arn't to worn.

>>Good suggestions

While everything is apart, I would take a wire brush on a pneumatic die grinder and remove all the rust from the serious parts and then use engine paint on it all to keep it looking nice.

>>Will do

Other than that I wouldn't do much more unless you are going for the show car feel and look.

>>Eventually.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dave1987

Ask yourself this first. Is the car worth it to you?

I myself would be thrilled to do it to my own Pinto, but I drive it every day and I would hate to wreck it due to a suspension failure. My A-arms are rusty to, but deffinately still solid, as are my springs.

The hole in the battery tray I would fix for sure, just to keep rust form eating away are more and more of the car as time passes.

Here's what I would do:

Replace the shocks and the bushings, concerned brake line sections, rebuild the brakes with new calipers and pads, and even new rotors if they arn't to worn.

While everything is apart, I would take a wire brush on a pneumatic die grinder and remove all the rust from the serious parts and then use engine paint on it all to keep it looking nice.

Other than that I wouldn't do much more unless you are going for the show car feel and look.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

popbumper

Hi guys:

  Having had my car ('76 wagon) for only two days, every day is yet an adventure, as I make new discoveries. I appreciate everyone's patience as my excitement overflows.

  I took a good look underneath the front end today, and found that the mechanical parts (especially the rubber parts) are very dry and brittle (not the belts, but the various bushings and such). I AM concerned about the rubber portion of the brake lines. I also ordered new upper and lower radiator hoses, I will change those out this weekend.

  As expected, the A-arms are quite rusty, as are the backing plates, spindles, springs, and the like. Some pretty serious rust has eaten out a rather large longitudinal hole in the inner fender beneath the battery; this area is going to require some grinding/rust removal and shaping a fiberglass mat or something such to at least temporarily repair the hole.

  The car drives and rides fine, the shocks are good (they look original, and they dampen nicely if the body is pressed down), there's no apparent binding/shimmying/swaying of the car, with hands off the wheel it's rather true. Everything needs an obvious lube job. My question is this:

  Should I pop the money for a front end rebuild? Will I gain any appreciable "feel", or is it just a good idea to do it considering the condition? The car has NOT been inspected yet, it may or may not pass, I could not say at this point, as I am no mechanic. I don't want any unexpected mechanical failures (who would)...I just don't know what would be recommended from a "safety/handling" point of view. If I had my druthers (and I WILL get to that point), I'd completely pull the front end apart, sandblast all the bracketing and metal parts, powder coat everything, and rebuild, but that's not gonna happen yet.

  Opinions welcome, thanks!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08