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$300 Pinto for sale

Date: 04/19/2017 10:24 am
front end parts
Date: 03/30/2018 12:48 pm
oldskool787
Date: 02/12/2017 12:42 pm
1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

Date: 09/15/2019 12:28 pm
Need 2.3 timing cover
Date: 08/10/2018 11:41 am
71-73 sway bar
Date: 06/12/2021 10:12 am
73 rear hatchback glass
Date: 07/06/2017 11:33 am
1971-74 Various Pinto Parts
Date: 01/18/2020 03:44 pm
Wanted 1971-73 pinto 2.0 4 speed manual transmission
Date: 03/06/2019 06:40 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Floor pans

Started by FlyerPinto, June 14, 2007, 03:41:50 PM

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turbowagonman

Quote from: FlyerPinto on June 19, 2007, 08:00:35 AM
I'm going to get some photos of the car soon and try to post them here. I've been having difficulty getting pictures on here thus far; I'm pretty certain the fault lies with my settings as the photo files are larger than acceptable.

I had the same problem (with the file size being too large). When I went on "Your Pintos" there is a bit of good info on how to post pics there. I'll attach a link here, check it out.

turbowagonman

http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=40&topic=232.0
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

FlyerPinto

I'm going to get some photos of the car soon and try to post them here. I've been having difficulty getting pictures on here thus far; I'm pretty certain the fault lies with my settings as the photo files are larger than acceptable. There is a good amount of rust on the car, and I'll get more specific in a while after I spend some more time out there. I would love to have someone look at this and tell me what it will take to repair this car. I want the car, so I'll spend the money. I took my Cruising Wagon to D and D Restorations in Covington, Ohio. They do a lot of Concourse grade restorations on things like Ferraris and Rolls Royce, though they also have an AMC Concord and some 76 Bicentennial Cadillacs in there. The guy said he could easily see $30,000 to $40,000 going into the CW. I said not if I was going to stay married...I'm willing to spend some money, but not like that on a car that will never be worth half what I would invest. I have a figure in mind for my Bobcat, and if I can stay under that figure, I'll be ok. I just have to find someone who can do some welding and cutting, or learn to do it myself. I'm having my garage floor (currently gravel) concreted as part of a major construction project here at the house. So very shortly my backyard will have a small car lot look going for it with both Cruising Wagons, the Bobcat and a Mustang II setting inside the fence. After the floor is done though I can get more into the Bobcat, gravel is tricky in some ways. The sewer guy seems to want my Mustang II. I might just let him have it if he brings money.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

TIGGER

From the picture, the floor pans look different.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

turbowagonman

Good info.
I'm not sure if they will fit though.   :(

turbowagonman
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

ctompkins31

Listed is a website that makes reproduction floor pans for the mustang II. Will they match????
http://www.dfortuna.com/

turbowagonman

P.I.T.A. = Pain In The A$$
Q: If I get the metal set to go, how do I properly align holes for the seats

Did you already cut the whole floor out??? Is your floor THAT bad. If it is um......
If not measure where the holes are at presently, and try to mark the Rockers and take your measurements from there.

I know with my first project they were bad but I only had to replace the sheet metal by Front holes so I measured what the spacing was from the rear holes.
If you do have to replace the whole floor and haven't cut it out yet, do it front half first measuing hole location off of the remaining back holes. Then the rear half measuring hole location off of the new front holes. Keep in mind you need to weld the New floor pans to the Sub-Frames.

Now, if your car is that bad with rust, meaning you have to replace the whole floor, what is the strength of the rest of the car? How strong are the Rockers? How is your Front Shackle at the Leaf Springs?  ???

I don't mean this in a way to slam your car, I'm just asking are you throwing good money to bad? I scrapped a car that I had alot of hours in and a TON of money thrown into fixing the cancer on it. Then I bought a car (10 years later) that had nearly no Cancer at all and after digging into it there was some there in the cracks and crevises. No large holes in the floor just a ton of tiny pin holes so I replaced the floor pan by where the Drivers heels are at. I guess what I'm saying is try not to dump alot of money into a car that has alot of rust because it will re-surface in 5-6 years. I can attest to it.

If you are doing this for practice or to re-sell do it as cheap as possible.

If you are doing this as a keeper really look into what the whole car overall needs to be done, put it down on a list, then sit down and review the list.

turbowagonman
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

FlyerPinto

Thanks for the input. You might explain P.I.T.A. for me though...Another question. If I get the metal set to go, how do I properly align holes for the seats, just kind of wing it, or possibly measure against a car with a good floor? Also, my car cancer seems to go up a ways around the footwells, same solution basically?
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

turbowagonman

I've done Two 80 floor pans and found the easiest way is to use 14 ga. sheet metal and cut it lange, bend it to fit , and then trim it to fit. When doing this make sure you cut away ALL the "Cancer", going into good metal makes it so much easier when you are welding the new pan in.

turbowagonman
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

77turbowagon

I know 77-80 Pinto/Bobcat floor pans are the same because I just got done replacing the driver pan on my 77 Wagon with a 80 Bobcat HB pan. So best I can say is find a donor car. From my experience it is a P.I.T.A.

77turbopinto

All of mine have had very good pans, but I have seen a couple of Pintos with rotted floors. The areas that tend to rot are fairly flat and easy to make. I don't know of any aftermarket floors, nor do I know of what car that is close (even if you find some, after you buy and modify them, it might be cheaper and easier just to make them). There are places out there that will repair them for you, just get a few different quotes as prices will can be quite different on shop to the next.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

FlyerPinto

I'm sure I've seen this topic mentioned here before, but I can't find where it was now. I need a new floor for my 77 Bobcat HB, and probably for one of my Cruising Wagons as well. Anyone making these things, or is there anything that anyone has successfully adapted to fit Pintos? I can have someone create them I suppose, but I don't weld yet myself. What am I up against? There has to be a common need for these things... ???
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...