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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

V-8 swap solid motor mounts

Started by fordfreak, April 14, 2004, 07:36:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Tim R

I thought I would post a reply here with info on how I did mine and it worked out very nice.
I have a 73 runabout with a 5.0 from a 98 explorer in it with stock Maverick rubber mounts. These mounts were cheap from Checker Auto buy on line and pick them up at your local store and the price is even better. I had to remove the stock frame mounts from the car with torch and air chisel then finally did the finish work with a grinder. anyway basically just get rid of the stock frame mounts and clean up the area where they were attached. then I cut some 3/16" plates to fit on the inside of the frame they are about 6"-8" long I don't remember for sure and then just as tall as the frame from top of pinch weld to the bottom pinch weld. These get welded all of the way around to the stock frame of the car. Now this provides a solid area to weld mounts to. I made my frame mounts by cutting DOM tubing to fit the Maverick mounts. I used 1" OD by 7/16" ID tubing. These tubes I attached to the frame plates with 2 each 3/16" plates that attach to just above the lower and just below the upper pinch weld area. You will need to have a means up supporting engine in place while getting it placed where you want it then tack weld everything in place forming a triangle of sorts that will be your new frame mounts. Carefully remove engine and finish welding everything. This makes a very nice and clean install plus you will not be limited by all of the constraints of using factory pieces that may or may not place engine where you want it. I was able to use my stock C4 cross member mount and everything came out great. If I remember right I did weld up the holes in my stock C4 crossmember and placed it in the car so that trans mount could be moved back as far as possible then I just redrilled the holes where I wanted them. It is just amazing what you can do if you have a little time and a good welder.  Have fun with it guys.
You can see some pictures of my car posted in the Your Projects section they are posted under my sons user name 73runabout as 73 efi V8 swap. Or something like that.

LudicrusLeonard

And solid mounts do put a LOT of pressure on the poor little Pinto chassis too. Even worse if you have anything over a stock cam. I have a friend that swore by solid mounts till his chassis came apart under his V8.. Of course I gave him a hard time over it since he was running a Chevy 350/Turbo350 powertrain in his 71... It tore the car's frame to pieces..

I would consider the info from bstang71.. Real good information there.. And just for the sake of the light frame the early Pinto's had in them I would strongly recommend going back with insulated motor mounts or perhaps doing custom plates and channels with Poly insulators between them, anything to protect your old trusty steads frame from the excess stresses..

Good luck!!

LL,
Abq, NM
73 Pinto Squire Wagon, 74 Pinto 4X4 wagon, 75 Bobcat wagon, 75 Pinchero Pu, 76 Pinchero Pu, 78 Pinto Panel Delivery. (75 Bobcat Wagon in process of becoming fold out/popup Camptrailer for the 74 4X4 wagon)

junkyard dog

My personal opinion..
Solid motor mounts in a V8 Pinto = a lot of vibrations in the poor little car..
also cause;s headaches for drivers and passengers after long drives. :sleep:
use rubber mounts!!
Tim

LudicrusLeonard

The last V8 swap I did in a Pinto runabout was an 80. The donor motor and motor mounts came out of a 75 Mustang II and bolted in with very little arguement after I swapped them from left to right. Used the passenger side on the drivers side and drivers side on the passenger side and they bolted right to the oem 2.3 mount positions on the frame. With the early frame you may have to do some fabrications. IE adapter brackets that bolt to the chassis and fill the gap to the motor mounts.

With my V8 4X4 Wagon I used 3/8" flat plate to fab the mount tabs for the 302 block and used the OEM Bronco II 2.8/2.9 V6 mounts... Of course the engine is moved forward in the chassis 7" to clear the firewall, with a notch cut out of the cross member for the starter. And I used the 85-86 Mustang GT shorty headers since they will fit about any body you use the engine in.

Just remember! There is nothing you cannot do if you set your mind to it! And if you have any tallent for fabrication you can always make the part you need and save paying the middle man! Best wishes and good luck!

Ludicrus Leonard Said It!
73 Pinto Squire Wagon, 74 Pinto 4X4 wagon, 75 Bobcat wagon, 75 Pinchero Pu, 76 Pinchero Pu, 78 Pinto Panel Delivery. (75 Bobcat Wagon in process of becoming fold out/popup Camptrailer for the 74 4X4 wagon)

bstang71

Hi, I am new here,but I am into Mustang IIs. I was ready this thread and thought that I should post here. Mustang II mounts are no longer available through ford. No one currently makes an after market set. The anchor,and every other company that says they can get them are mis-informed. Anchor does show a current part number for the V8 mounts,but when they arrive at the store they are for a 4cyl. I am making a rebuild kit to rebuild old worn out Mustang II mounts. If you have a set of mounts that need to be rebuilt, I would be happy to offer the same price here as at my home site.They are $85.00 US with the shipping included for that price,to the Continental US or Canada. I am a long time member at the mustangII.net,and owner of 3 75-78 mustang including a KC that I am currently putting a 351C into The frame mounts from a 4cyl mustang II and a V8 are almost identical,and will work for a V8 swap in the 74-78 Stang,and I think that should interchange into the pinto. Someone mentioned that the 78 King cobra left side mounts are the same. They are not. The mounts are both offset different. If you try to use 2 left/right side mounts they will not line up on 1 side. I also have a lot of Mustang II specific parts that might help in a V8 swap into a pinto. Let me know if I can be of any help. This is a great site by the way great job!

bigbill

Nothing from a M-2 will work on a 71-72-73 Pinto for engine mounts unless you cut the original frame mounts off of the frame.(they will not just unbolt). Save yourself a lot of time and trouble and use a front engine mount plate. They are about 100 bucks from Jeggs or Summit and yes you can mount it on small rubber mounts. I used new 72 2.o engine mounts from NAPA.  BMW

CONSFIRE

ROUSH PERFORMANCE HAD A CONVERSION KIT OUT 20+ YEARS AGO. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY STILL HAVE THEM,TRY CONTACTING THEM. KIT CONTAINED FRAME MOUNTS AND MULTI PIECE HEADERS. THEY USED STOCK FORD MOTOR MOUNTS V8 MUSTANG I BELIEVE. IF YOU NEED MORE HELP CONTACT ME AT MY E-MAIL ON THIS SITE.                                                                                                                                                                                PHIL

78kc289

the left side (driver side) mustang II v8 motor mount can be found at worldautopartsdirect.com and
AutoPartsGiant.com  both sites have  anchor part# 2344 oe#d7zz6038b these are not solid but will work on a pinto v8

fordsbyjay

My 73 was done with the Hooker swap kit. Not sure what year the original mounts were from. I know the previous owner (one of m friends) had replaced several broken ones. To make them solid we welded a piece of 1/8" flat bar from the top of the mount to the bottom (across the rubber part). Never changed one since and it's been about 12 years.
Cuts heal, chicks dig scars, but glory lasts forever!

Underdog76

I would try any local Ford dealership or try Ford directly.
hope this helps.
Fast as lightning, strong as thunder

fordfreak

cool,anyone know of any companys that make solid mounts for a 78' king cobra?

Underdog76

They are on a 71  ;D I forgot to say. my bad
Fast as lightning, strong as thunder

78pinto

not sure if they work on a '71 but i'll find out.  Brad might know, he had a 289 in his '72
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Underdog76

Left hand Mounts off of a 78 King Cobra work.
Part #D72A-6B032-AA
Both are Left hand mounts, but they bolt right in.
Hope this helps ;D
Fast as lightning, strong as thunder

fordfreak

k,I appreciate it. It's got some factory mounts of some sort,I'm trying to find some pics. of stock v-8 mustang 2 mounts,so I can see is thats what they are,I've seen articles about people using different fords mounts,and getting them to work,but I'm not sure what these are,I guess worse case scenario I can take one out and have some made for it.

78pinto

I'll see if i can find out what my buddy used in his '71 351.
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

fordfreak

alright comeon people,no one knows of anything? :-\

fordfreak

I can't seem to find any solid motor mounts for my 71' v-8 pinto,I figured mounts from a mustang 2 would work maybe,but I can't seem to find either anywhere,anyone have a link to something?

thanks.Drew S. 8)