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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

question about starter

Started by Jeff_$picoli420, November 26, 2006, 01:27:09 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

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Pintony

IF the battery has a DEAD-CELL then it will not jump start.
The only thing a jump does is charge a dead battery.
UNLESS you have some 100.00 cables that will transfer the full amperage to your battery.
Even with the 100.00 cables a BAD battery will not jump.
From Pintony

BUY a NEW BATTERY!!!!

Cookieboystoys

you said... I had tried to boost it from my friends truck last night, to no avail. Should that not maybe lead towards the battery not being the problem? I am left clueless.

and I say still assume battery first. A battery that has been sitting and is in bad or non working condition will still not work if you try to jump start it with another vehicle.

I tried to jump start mine first w/cheap cables and no luck... had to leave the battery charger on it for several hours before it had enough power to start it (Yes, cheap battery charger) and it should be noted that until it got cold out I didn't have any problems starting the car with that battery and had no reason to expect problems w/battery. But now that it has gotten cold out I find out the battery works but is weak. Time to replace.
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Jeff_$picoli420

As well, in the above orange question, here is a closer picture of one of the devices :



as well, I had tried to boost it from my friends truck last night, to no avail. Should that not maybe lead towards the battery not being the problem? I am left clueless.

BTW found the chiltons repair manuals in the trunk, it's worth it to clean out stuff every now and again! So I hopefully won't have any more guessing as to what a part is, as the diagrams are right in the book! Good stuff!

Jeff_$picoli420

Thank you all for your quick, informative answers. The tires were replaced by the previous owner, about 2 years ago. So I assume they are fine (they look in great cond). I will have to try to clean the connectors/battery first, and if that doesn't work I will proceed down the line. Hopefullly it is the battery, as I am in Canada, and don't know how expensive it would be to ship parts from the U.S,or if there is a canadian manufacturer/supplier(s) of pinto parts. Any suggestions/compatible parts I should be looking for? Any American manufacturers tha ship to canada for cheap? I heard about this one process where I can get stuff shipped to somewhere in seattle and they will "boat" it across to canada so I dont have to pay any border tax. I am a young fella, so I would like to keep everything as cheap/nice as possible. I am sure I will get my baby running up soon enough. I of course, will keep you posted.

Eventually I hope to repair/replace/refurbish the complete interior, so it should be interesting trying to find a donor car from cali that I can just go down and rip apart one weekend (I live right on the border of washington, In british columbia). That is still a long way aways, but I cant wait to "Pimp my Pinto!" If there are any canadians who have/will be fixing up or replacing parts on a pinto, I would like to talk with you about it. Please Email me and perhaps we could discuss our pimpin' rides. Now it's time to get that steel wool ripping. Thanks all. Cheers.  :drunk:

oldkayaker

I agree with Cookieboy but would like to emphasize that part about cleaning the battery terminal connectors.  At 12 volts and high starting current, it only takes a fraction of an ohm in the connection to inhibit the starter.  A no-oxid compound (vaseline will work) on the connections will extend their life in this high acid area.

If the tires are 20 years old, they are due for replacement also.  I recommend at least inspecting the tires closely for cracks and deterioration before driving at speed again.

For reading material, Ebay occasionally has complete manual sets for these cars.  Due to the car's age, the manuals are a lot cheaper.  I do not know these vendors but they have a good feedbacks.
http://cg.eba.com/abattoirs/75-1975-76-1976-FORD-SHOP-MANUAL-5-VOLUMES_W0Victims290055537857Quiz01934220Grads1
http://cg.eba.com/abattoirs/FORD-1975-1976-CAR-SHOP-MANUAL-BOOK-SET-vol-1-4_W0Victims160056737088Quiz0066759Grads1
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Cookieboystoys

I'll see if I can I help....

pic 1 is your starter and the bump is part of it... not the solenoid.

pic 2

1. ) Blue : is this just a dipstick for tranny fluid? or how you fill? if not tranny fluid, what type of fluid?

Answer: Yes this is tranny and also where you fill if needed

2. ) Green : Is this bad? looks that way, but if it could be tested or recharged in some way (temporarily/couple of weeks) would be really nice.

Answer: yes is bad but if you disconnect and clean it up will be fine if battery is good. Try recharging battery but agree looks old and should probally be replaced.

3. ) Purple : is this a relay? contorller of some sort? What does Orange do(see below question)?

Answer: This is the starter solenoid and the item I was refering to that was going click, click, click... until I recharged my battery.

4. ) Orange : this item/items seemed to be clicking as I was trying to turn it over. what are these exactly? could this possibly be accoutning for some of the problem?

Answer: not sure I can't tell from the pic - looks like some sort of resistor

5. ) Red : It definately appears that this needs some kind of tubing on it. it leads off of the engine, my best guess is maybe an air intake?

Answer: you guessed it... missing the tube between

6. ) Orange : this piping appears to be bent for some reason. no idea why. any ideas? should it be open? shold it be connected to some other part of the engine/ another part?

Answer: just guessing but part of the pollution system possible connects to 7b - just guessing

7. a- ) White : is this for some type of vaccum, or fluid? I have another picture about this one.

Answer: connects to side of air cleaner

7. b- ) Is that the adjoining end? and if so, is that not the air conditioning unit? or some type of motor, controlling something... leading to this picture :

Answer: Part of the pollution control unit

and the button to the left of the brake pedal is for the headlights - brite/dimm


I would recommend you swap the battery out and try with a different battery, borrow one from a different car. If this battery is dead it may not hold a charge and jumping would not help. Just borrow a battery from a different car, hook it up and then see if it turns over witheout clicking. If it turns over or starts.... get a new battery. If it still clicks then try changing the solenoid, inexpensive part usually under $15. The clicking sound will usually be caused by 2 things....

1) bad battery

2) solenoid

Try swapping in a good battery first... just my opinion

hope this helps  ;D
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Jeff_$picoli420

I had taken some general pictures of things I may think are the solenoid, and one that I had a question about.
You will have to forgive me, as I just moved across canada, and dont have a jack available to me(via borrowing from a known friend). Hence the horrible pictures. Will have to purchase a cheap jack before I can attempt to install a new starter.

Is this the solenoid? Is it located along the starter, on top? or is it out of my sight/that's a part of the starter (I think it is), and located elsewhere? The picture was taken from the front/underneath of the vehicle,



as well, I got a pretty clear picture of above the battery earlier today. It maybe needs replacement, as it looks to be pretty old. I dunno if there is a way of testing that, but that corrosion/acid build-up doesn't look too encouraging. I have created a color-illustrated diagram, with these following questions / notes, so I could maybe better understand what I am looking at :



1. ) Blue : is this just a dipstick for tranny fluid? or how you fill? if not tranny fluid, what type of fluid?

2. ) Green : Is this bad? looks that way, but if it could be tested or recharged in some way (temporarily/couple of weeks) would be really nice.

3. ) Purple : is this a relay? contorller of some sort? What does Orange do(see below question)?

4. ) Orange : this item/items seemed to be clicking as I was trying to turn it over. what are these exactly? could this possibly be accoutning for some of the problem?

5. ) Red : It definately appears that this needs some kind of tubing on it. it leads off of the engine, my best guess is maybe an air intake?

6. ) Orange : this piping appears to be bent for some reason. no idea why. any ideas? should it be open? shold it be connected to some other part of the engine/ another part?

7. a- ) White : is this for some type of vaccum, or fluid? I have another picture about this one.



7. b- ) Is that the adjoining end? and if so, is that not the air conditioning unit? or some type of motor, controlling something... leading to this picture :



I figured it would be something like an a/c unit or something not essential to the vehicle running. The motor seems siezed (if that is how you spell that), and there is no belt/ not attached to the motor. If it is not an A/c unit, could I perhaps be corrected, as to know what I need to replace?

One last nub question of the night, what exactly does this button do? I didn't get the original owners manual, so I am left clueless searching on the internet. :



So yeah, my guess would be maybe something that regulates speed? lol.

I had read up on all your feedback and appreciate the time you all put into supporting the pinto community   :drunk: (cheers). I am well-rounded at working with digital equipment, and hope to document alot of processes that I hope to accomplish on this project ("Pimpin' Muh Pinto : A Labour of Love" coming next year... to a forum near you...). It will be time well spent, though, as I am not a rich man soo acquiring funds to put into the car will be slow. I think as soon as I can install the starter (couple of weeks), I will have a decent running machine (+ a tune-up, and maybe some wiring replacements)

Based on what I could possibly do at the moment, went out to check the lines. I then asked a friend if he could try to give it a boost to see if that would help... tried it a couple of times but it still wouldnt turn over. I am thinking it is the starter that wont give, but am open as to how to move forward from this point. hopefully I am not too under-knowledged as to how I am explaining myself. If there is any way I could clarify, please inform.

I have started to learn about how engines work (www.howstuffworks.com) but would like to learn how specific parts other than the engine itself works, to try and piece the puzzle of the system. I am sure a couple of answers to my questions will "drive" me in the right direction, and offer insight as to where to start researching again.

Cookieboystoys

LOL... I was just having problems starting one of the wagons....

just click, click, click... at the turn of the key.

was turning over fine then a slight clunk in the starter and then click, click, click...

turned out to be a low charge on the battery...

hooked up the battery charger for a bit and no more click, click, click...
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Pintony

Quote from: 77turbopinto on November 26, 2006, 04:56:34 PM
The starter is easy if you drop the rack on that side.

How is the battery and ALL the connections?

Bill
Hey Bill,
Yes the 74-up Pinto is easyer if you can get that bolt out???
The early Pinto is harder but I have mastered it in under 15 min.
If you take the starter out backwards and replace backwards.
BUT I have a header "custom down-pipe" that may allow the starter to be removed that way a bit easyer.
The Pinto with the stock exhaust is a PIA
From Pintony

turbopinto72

Quote from: 77turbopinto on November 26, 2006, 04:56:34 PM
The starter is easy if you drop the rack on that side.

How is the battery and ALL the connections?

Bill

Bill, you took the words right out of my mouth. To me, it sounds like a weak battery or bad ground. I would check the battery for a full charge first.
just my 2c
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

77turbopinto

The starter is easy if you drop the rack on that side.

How is the battery and ALL the connections?

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Jeff_$picoli420

Hey Pintony,
     The issue I am having is it won't turn over now. The starter is located below the battery, on the pass. side. When I try to turn it over, there is just a clicking noise coming from another area, above the battery. perhaps I am just making a wrong judgement as to what the solinoid is. I will post up some images of what I think is what etc. for a better analisys. and thank you for the welcome, I hope to be active on these forums for quite some time now, as I just bought my baby yesterday, and it needs some work! I am thinking of restoring it as much as possible, but as for being in canada I will hopefully be able to locate parts with ease (rocky road of learning ahead). Hopefully I can find answers to my (noob) questions, and I am sure that I will meet a few freindly faces along the way. who knows, maybe become an expert through time and experience.

BTW I love this site. great stuff!

Pintony

Hello Jeff_$picoli420,
  :welcome:

I am a little in the dark.
What exactly does your Pinto do when starting that makes you think there is a problem?

Do the easy stuff first.
The solinoid on the pass side above the battery should be the place to start.
Easy CHEEP replacement.
On the otherhand the starter is a bit of a PIA to replace.

From Pintony

Jeff_$picoli420

I have located the starter, all it took was being in the light of day, and not being soo drunk. Anyhow, it looks like a really old piece on the vehicle, possibly orig, but obviously needs replaced. My question now is, can I just "tap" the solenoid/starter to "unstick it"? I had gotten this suggestion from  the previous owner, as being a temporary fix. I only ask cause I am pretty broke, wont be able to buy the starter for a week or so, and my girlfriend and myself would like to go out on this nice snowy day for a 'lil fun in our new pimpin' ride. any suggestions are very much appreciated.

I was thinking of myself taking pictures of the engine bay, as to see what needs improvement/replacing and hopefully could get a better idea of what I need to do/learn in order to make this pinto a well-greased machine. Thank you for any input.

TIGGER

Sounds like the starter is sticking.  I would replace it and possibly the solenoid.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

Jeff_$picoli420

I am new to the pinto world, and may I say it is a fun one. Recently bought a '75 2.3 2-door, has starter issues. The previous owner said something about tapping the rod coming from the starter to give it a lil umffff to get going (turn-over). Only problem is, is I am a auto-noob. I have tried to get pictures off the engine bay, with diagrams pointing out the general ins-and-outs of the engine, but with no luck. I am just immersing myself into learning about autos, and figured I will find out soon enough through my own research. But call me lazy, I just want to go out and enjoy the sweet ride that is a pinto. I really want this car to have no issues with starting, so may need to replace the starter as well. This will be a project for me in the coming year, as I look to restore alot of the interior/exterior/engine. Any ideas for me? suggestions for the right direction?

BTW the car drove fine when I could start it. got it up to about 80 mph the first time I took it out. drove like a kitten. was stored for 20+ years, and has 60,000 on the orig motor.