Mini Classifieds

1980 pinto wagon for sale
Date: 12/11/2017 12:13 am
1978 Squire wagon 6 Cly
Date: 03/08/2021 10:44 am
upholstery for bucket seats
Date: 10/30/2018 08:44 am
Mint Original Black Rear Seat $275.00

Date: 07/30/2020 11:45 am
Dumping '80 yellow Pinto

Date: 06/21/2017 03:45 pm
1979 Pinto Sedan Delivery

Date: 06/15/2019 03:30 pm
pinto parts for sale
Date: 07/25/2018 04:51 pm
1974 Wiring diagram free
Date: 10/27/2019 06:56 pm
Mirror
Date: 04/15/2020 01:42 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,137
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 814
  • Total: 814
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

WHY IS DERBYING BAD?

Started by DDDAjerelight, February 01, 2006, 07:01:46 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

78pinto

Quote from: 77turbopinto on February 01, 2006, 01:50:22 PM
The last I checked, people have the right to demo pintos if they own them and want to. 

I always liked that saying: "If you don't have something nice to say..........


          BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER   
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

78pinto

Quote from: turbopinto72 on February 01, 2006, 04:57:48 PM
Except for the people who dont like me............... ;D :police:

Hey buddy...i still like you...does it make you feel any better? :-* ;D
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

77turbopinto

Quote from: GM70 on February 01, 2006, 06:16:33 PM
....It seems like you would like to have all of our left over parts but still bad mouth us in every way possible....

Who is the "you" that you are you talking about? If you have a problem with someone, contact the admin., and report the post. Making broad statements like that can only make trouble (the think you said you don't want to do), and not solve anything.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbopinto72

Quote from: GM70 on February 01, 2006, 06:16:33 PM
I have to agree. It seems like you would like to have all of our left over parts but still bad mouth us in every way possible. Sorry but Demolition Derby is a motorsport like anything else and we are free to smash what ever we want. I'm not on here to make trouble; I just want to understand why it's just so bad.

Its like this, say you realy like beer and there is only so much left in the word an I like to use it to wash the mud off my pigs and take pictures and show you my clean pigs and all the empty and broken beer bottles.  I guess thats why its so bad. Its not that you like derby, Its we like our pintos with out dents.......... ;D
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

GM70

I have to agree. It seems like you would like to have all of our left over parts but still bad mouth us in every way possible. Sorry but Demolition Derby is a motorsport like anything else and we are free to smash what ever we want. I'm not on here to make trouble; I just want to understand why it's just so bad.

turbopinto72

Quote from: fast34 on February 01, 2006, 03:45:06 PM
I believe that is what we have all tried to state in this thread.

Except for the people who dont like me............... ;D :police:
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

fast34

I believe that is what we have all tried to state in this thread.

77turbopinto

The last I checked, people have the right to demo pintos if they own them and want to.

Giving the derby people a hard time about that, or them giving others a hard time, is where the trouble is on this topic (along with any name-calling from either "side"), so will both sides please stop.

I agree, they are great 4-banger demo cars; I have seen them in action.

If (anyone that guts a car for any reason) they wish to junk the parts they remove, give them away, or sell them is up to them. It is nice if they offer them to people that need or want them, but NOT something thay have to do. There is a market for those parts, just look on ebay or the wanted section here; It is not a big-buck market, but it is there.

I always liked that saying: "If you don't have something nice to say..........

We all have our own opinions about this, and this is mine (I hope I was nice enough about it).

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

fast34

Can't believe this is still going on.  Nothing that what these guys do is bad, except coming here with pictures and bragging about how a "super clean" , Pinto was destroyed.  A few of us said some things that were wrong and not nice to say the least. Many of us even apologized for saying these things.  I for one did and hope that anyone was not overly offended.  Bottom line is this, do as you wish with your cars, they're yours and you have this right, but please don't come here and brag about how many or how nice,or what a pile that these cars are.  Most here really don't like to hear that.  Since majority generally rules, if I were you, I would  LET THIS GO,  since I do not wish to see anyone banned from this site.  Otherwise. please keep listing the parts you do not want or need on here for sale, trade, whatever, and hopefully we can all learn to get along.  Thanks to the moderators for "trying" to keep the peace.

krazi

Quote from: will53x on February 01, 2006, 07:58:22 AM
but we would save parts if asked nicely....

ok, I'd like a hood, fenders, floors, quarters and doors. these are hard to find in this part of the country. and even harder now that everyone smashes them up. I've asked nicely, and the local guys destroy all the parts they don't want.
yeah, I'm Krazi!

78pinto

read this post it explains why there was a problem. Its not about what you do.

http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=3867.msg22464#msg22464
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

will53x

i agree.....we find em,strip em and wreck em...but we would save parts if asked nicely....then everyone would be happy....derby drivers arent bad for what they do,it is just a perceived notion that all we do is destroy!

DDDAjerelight

I AM JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOU GUYS THINK THAT DERBYING PINTOS IS BAD.  I AM 100% FORD AND THE PINTO IS ONE OF FORDS BLACK SHEEP.  FORD KNOWS THEY MADE IT, BUT WONT PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE IT ANYMORE BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORY.  I DERBY ALL KINDS OF CARS AND IF I HAD A CHANCE TO DERBY A PINTO I WOULD.  BUT YOU GUYS SEEM HYPOCRITICAL SINCE YOU WANT ALL THE PARTS FROM OUR STRIPPED OUT CARS.


DDDA 4 EVER!!!!!