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78 wagon instrument y
Date: 04/30/2018 07:41 pm
1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
Date: 10/10/2019 09:42 pm
1971 Pinto (survivor)

Date: 05/15/2022 04:42 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
Wanted instrument cluster lens for 74
Date: 04/30/2023 04:31 pm
2.3 carb intake

Date: 07/15/2020 09:25 pm
74 Pinto Hub Caps & Trim Rings

Date: 02/28/2018 09:37 am
74 Pinto wagon armrests
Date: 01/18/2017 07:04 pm
Pinto or Bobcat wagon wanted
Date: 08/05/2018 10:49 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Up for sale - parts added

Started by Reeves1, March 03, 2021, 09:12:28 AM

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Reeves1

Quote from: super4ord on February 03, 2024, 11:27:08 PM
I know this is an old thread, but do you still have those 85600 Hedman headers for sale, or are they long gone?  Thank you!!!  Darrell R. Miller


Still have them.

super4ord

I know this is an old thread, but do you still have those 85600 Hedman headers for sale, or are they long gone?  Thank you!!!  Darrell R. Miller

Reeves1

One of my biggest mistakes in life.......posting it for sale on FB !

Next time I list it I'll be charging $100.00 for each usless question !

(for the car)

LOL !

Reeves1

Quote from: Reeves1 on November 15, 2023, 10:09:49 AM
289/302 intake from the old Ford Performance Program.
Duel Plane High Riser.
These flow as well or better than any new one.
C90X 9424 B
$600.00 Plus shipping.
Prefer to sell in Canada.






SOLD Was cool meeting the guy.....turns out he has 2 Pintos ! A 71 & 72 !

Reeves1

289/302 intake from the old Ford Performance Program.
Duel Plane High Riser.
These flow as well or better than any new one.
C90X 9424 B
$600.00 Plus shipping.
Prefer to sell in Canada.






SOLD

Reeves1


Reeves1

20k USD or 25k CDN for my car.

Two State side people have been in touch , wanting my car.
Both refuse to be subjected to Trudopes internment camp/hotel BS that is mandatory, even if you have had the Vaccine.
I hate LIEbrals  >:(

Reeves1

Going to list a set of new (NOS) lower ball joints for 71/73 Pintos soon. Seen listed for as high as $195.00 USD. I will not list them so high though ? RARE ! Prefer a Canadian get them, as any a person can find is (mostly) in the US.
Canadian can E-Transfer money.
In the US you can do a Global Transfer for money.
They will, of course be plus shipping.
I'll post price as soon as I decide......

$200.00 for the set + shipping.



oldandcrotchety

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  I guess it boils down to the attitude.  You use the right approach to ask about the price. I hope I didn't give the impression that I was disagreeing with you.

dga57

Sounds like a winning strategy to me!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Dtmix

Thanks for the other perspective...I never really had thought about it that way. I do pay the asking price if it is fair and reasonable, while at other times, if I see something with a astronomical pricing, I would try to inquire about how they came up with the asking price...it becomes clear that the seller has no idea what to ask for but afraid to sell it for less than its worth. I would attempt to negotiate using respect and not using insulting verbiage as it does no favors to me as a potential buyer and the seller as we are in need of one another. They need to sell and I need the item.

If they explain how they came up with the price, and the reasoning is valid, I wouldn't argue and pay the asking price...especially when it is an nonobtainable part.  That way everyone is happy. 

How would you advise that I do differently? I find the hobby to be made up with honorable people with good intents, and for those with ill intentions, I prefer not to do business with. Yet, people with good intents can be illogical or misinformed and I wish to be an ambassador of the good and take the opportunity to have a respectful dialogue to educate and possibly provide a win-win situation for both sides.

Thanks for the interesting dialogue...

Happy Motoring!
Dan 
Happy Motoring!
Dan

oldandcrotchety

Quote from: Reeves1 on March 27, 2021, 09:28:59 AM
I'm not much on haggling on prices.
If I want something & I think the price is fair, I pay it. If not, I just roll on by.
If I list something I always post a fair price.
Just the way I roll....

Yep!  Just like you.  It really cranks me if I have something for sale, list it at the lowest price I think I can live with, and then get "So what will you really be willing to take?"  I guess I got kind of touchy about this type of thing from back when I had a paint and body shop.  Someone would bring in a collision insurance claim for an estimate and I would figure out the very lowest price I thought I could do the job for, and I would quite often get the job.  Then a few days later an insurance adjuster would show up trying to chisel me down by a few hundred dollars.   This happened so often that I finally got to the point that I would tell them "I obviously got the low bid and you want to crop that to the point that I won't make anything at all.  Why don't you take it to the next higher estimate and see if you can chisel them down to the same thing I had.  They would then say " No, no, if you are that stubborn then we will go with your estimate."  "Nope, I would say, I gave you my price and you came around here with that crap, I won't do the job.  It wasn't long before when I had the low bid it wasn't questioned.  So, today years later, as soon as someone tries to lowball me, it still gets my back up.                 

Reeves1

I'm not much on haggling on prices.
If I want something & I think the price is fair, I pay it. If not, I just roll on by.
If I list something I always post a fair price.
Just the way I roll....

Dtmix

That's quite a hike from Northern part of Alberta! At least you have way much better scenery to drive your pony through than we do in suburban America with strip malls, sat food joints, and parking lots one after another! I love seeing the trees, lakes, and nature while driving my Pinto!

Maybe someday the Stampede can held in your neck of the woods!

Yeah, many people try to lowball others with their offers...so thank you for not caving in as it makes it harder for others to maintain their values. It's also important to be reasonable with the asking price along with having  some wiggle room as we all like a bargain or even trying to save our ponies with a limited budgets.

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

Reeves1

Quote from: Dtmix on March 24, 2021, 07:18:56 PM
I was surprised to hear that you put your pony up in the corral! Did you find another Pinto project? I was hoping to meet you and to see your car at the Pinto Stampede!

Hope the next person loves Pintos as we do! 😀

Happy Motoring!
Dan

I have three. One on a rotisserie now.
Times been tough the last 1.5 years & need to pay bills.
One asshat on FB offered me 1/2 price on the headers......I told him I'd toss them on my scrap heap first....

Being in Northern Alberta Canada, the Stampede is way too far for me. Likely be a 10-15k + trip for me. Plus I'd have to trailer.
I am using Fury 108 (same as VP12) for fuel & get 6-8 mpg if I take it easy.

Dtmix

I was surprised to hear that you put your pony up in the corral! Did you find another Pinto project? I was hoping to meet you and to see your car at the Pinto Stampede!

Hope the next person loves Pintos as we do! 😀

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

Reeves1

If anyone is looking for a go fast car , my white B2 car is for sale as well.
Shoot me a PM if interested & we can talk.
It is something a person would have to see in person.....

Reeves1

The numbers stamped into the header flange: 85600

Reeves1

Up for sale. Prefer to sell in Canada. Why you ask ? Because banks up here will not give the going rate of exchange & also charge a "fee" for doing so. They take a huge chunk of the money.
Also, it is easy for money to change hands up here.
Kit cost me $727.99 USD & $66.61 USD for the lines. (plus shipping & taxes to here)
Price is :  $600.00 (way over $200.00 savings for you) Plus shipping.
I have a Wilwood rotor/brake kit 140-1023-B with the optional braided (longer) brake line. I assembled & had mounted on my white car & decided to do something different. Never on the road.
Second are Headman Headers for 289/302 - NOT 351. I bought them from a guy that had tested them on his car. It ran in his shop & never on the road.
I have a pile of money tied up in them , with being shipped from the States, taxes , duty etc.
$400.00 Plus shipping (likely 1/2 what I have into them)
I am in Northern Alberta Canada