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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Barrett-Jackson auto auction question

Started by caravan3921, October 23, 2020, 12:31:31 PM

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mikerich1972

We have a 1972 Firebird in pristine original condition that we show locally. In 2018, the radiator decided to give me fits, and needed to be replaced, so I cruised the Pinto in the Friday evening cruise. What a HUGE reaction we got from the old Pinto running around with the "big bucks boys"!! Nothing makes me smile more than cruising or parking next to a six-figure car.


We heard a LOT of comments about the good old days, growing up poor in a Pinto, etc.... Well, I drive this car daily and basically cruised it because I had paid an entry fee and wasn't about to completely forfeit the bucks. Needless to say, the car was a total hit with most people, although I sure didn't enter it into the show the next day (It's not up to show quality at all, this is a daily driver!!).


Just a couple days ago, we came out of a store to find a guy looking it over pretty thoroughly, he asked is it was okay that he took pictures to send to his son... ;D . What could I say? It was already done anyway, but this proves that most people remember the "little car that could", in spite of Nader's efforts. Even though most remember it from the "exploding gas tank" episodes although that was overblown and wrong, in the case of the wagons.


And yes, I do tell everyone that asks about the car that it's got almost 377,000 ORIGINAL miles, and still runs well! Japan's best can, in my opinion, take a flying leap back to Tokyo's shores. Of course, I built a spare 2.3L in 2003 while I could still get parts (a decent head!), then my wife quickly adds that I'm the only mechanic allowed to touch it. (TRUE!!! ::) [size=78%]) [/size]
[/size]
[/size]
1976 Pinto Wagon 2.3L
1972 Harley Davidson FLH 1200
1972 Pontiac Firebird 350/350
2003 Ford Motorhome
2018 Ford Focus

Henrius

Quote from: dga57 on December 24, 2020, 04:07:30 PM

My sentiments exactly!  I've never considered any of the Pintos I've owned to be an investment; they're an indulgence.  I will say however, as much as people don't really want to buy them, they do attract attention.  I've owned BMWs, Jaguars, and a slew of Cadillacs and Lincolns over the years and the ONLY car that has ever rivaled my Pintos for attention anywhere I go is my Rolls-Royce.  It's a different type of attention though.  With the Rolls, it's questions about an unfamiliar vehicle that most have never aspired to own and admiration for their expert craftsmanship.  With the Pintos, everybody has a Pinto memory and a story!

Dwayne :)

You are right about that. I could write a book out of all the Pinto stories people have related at car meets.

Pintos are a novelty, although most people would not want to buy one. It would bring them no prestige, unlike your Rolls Royce. But it allows people to recall their past- usually their youth. I kissed a girl for the first time in my Pinto. (In the front seat!)

What a surprise you say Falcons and Mavericks are in demand. You told me something I did not know- two-doors are much more collectable than four.

Saw a 4-door 1970 Dodge Dart in mint condition not too long back. No A/C. With the slant six that is about as reliable, practical,  and economical as you can go for a vintage daily driver. Might have bought it, but they wanted $14,000. Anything that gets into the hands of those antique car resellers is overpriced.

Really, 1960s cars interest me more than 1970s cars. American build quality took a nose dive in the 1970s. I can't get over how many manufacturing mistakes I found in my 1973 Runabout. However, one thing 1970s cars have going for them is safety. Those low back seats and no shoulder harnesses in the 1960s put people in jeopardy in collisions.

For these reasons and many more, I am not optimistic about Pintos ever being collectors' items that demand high prices, no matter how rare they eventually get.
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

dga57

Quote from: Henrius on December 24, 2020, 03:44:13 PM
.

I probably spent $20,000 in restoration and engine hop-up and don't have any illusions about ever being able to get the invested money out. Who cares, it is like reliving my youth in college driving the original car.


My sentiments exactly!  I've never considered any of the Pintos I've owned to be an investment; they're an indulgence.  I will say however, as much as people don't really want to buy them, they do attract attention.  I've owned BMWs, Jaguars, and a slew of Cadillacs and Lincolns over the years and the ONLY car that has ever rivaled my Pintos for attention anywhere I go is my Rolls-Royce.  It's a different type of attention though.  With the Rolls, it's questions about an unfamiliar vehicle that most have never aspired to own and admiration for their expert craftsmanship.  With the Pintos, everybody has a Pinto memory and a story!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Wittsend

It is a very rare thing for me to not get an item below asking price. Bargaining is part of the "hobby" for me. BUT..., if an item has a reasonable price of $50 (I'm taking used, Swapmeet/Craigslist car part here) I'll offer $40, not $10. Then depending on the condition or need adjust accordingly. But if that same item has an asking price of $100 I will just walk past and not even offer. Far too many people are hoping for that one naïve or stupid person to pay far too much. And in most cases they will WAIT..., and Wait..., and wait and they will never sell the item, thus they become the naïve or stupid one.


If someone has a reasonable price, I'll make a reasonable offer. More often than not, I the buyer and the other party, the seller, feel we are operating in a reasonable realm of reality and work out something agreeable. Otherwise, I won't even bother to make an offer when the initial price is ridiculous. I don't like dealing with absurdity.


Example, I go to a bi-annual Mopar car show every year. I was looking for an Edelbrock intake. I have seen asking prices everywhere between $125 and $50 (very few). $75 being a fair average. One day this kid had one. It had been painted Mopar blue and probably to him a detriment over the performance look of raw aluminum. I asked how much and he said, "$30." I broke the sound barrier getting my wallet out. OK, I get it that was a great deal. And I only cared about the performance of the manifold, not the color. As it was I saw the paint as "stealthy" (as in "just let them THINK this engine is stock"). But with the bottom of the market being  $30, a average good deal being $50 and typical reasonable price being $75 what do people think they are going to accomplish by asking $125???


Since there are no four door Pinto's I'll use the Falcon/Maverick as an example (here in referred to as F/M). It use to be a not too far thrashed two door F/M could be had for say, $2,000. A very decent one was $4,000 and a really nice one was $6,000. Today, somehow people thing a four door F/M with no title, broken glass, severe rust, a frozen drivetrain (or altogether missing) is worth $6,000. I mean no one is going to invest BIG in restoring a four door car. So, in essence it is the few body parts (often rusted) that provide any value but it sure isn't $6,000 worth.


So, I think the guy who wants a reasonable F/M will pass on the four door, especially at the asking price, and just concede he is priced out of the market. Now it might be he would be content with the four door at $1,000-$2,000 but that ain't happening. So, the sellers car just sits and rusts because he has a distorted idea of value and the buyer doesn't even get to "sort of" have the grandpa version of his desired car. Bummer all the way around.

Henrius

Quote from: HOSS429 on December 24, 2020, 02:16:05 PM
i got rid of my pinto for a few months earlier this and the fellow i sold it to thought he could quickly triple his money  .. he wanted 3 grand for it but got no takers .. i got it back for less than i sold it to him after he broke the rear end .. its` still a 1 thousand car all day long .. 

Doesn't really make sense, does it? I had to spend $4000 on an old Corolla for my daughter's first car. Nothing special- it had 100,000 miles on it.  But they won't pay near that for a Pinto. I guess they know old 4-bangers are less reliable than Jap compacts, and getting it serviced would be difficult these days. A/C is now a must, and few Pintos ever had A/C. If they did, it sucked power and did not work for long.

It is also a big step back for many people to go back to a carbaurated car. I will admit, fuel injection makes a world of improvement in daily driving.

Bottom line is people want classic cars that have snob appeal, like Chevelles and Chargers and Mustangs. Pintos never had street cred, and sure don't have it now.

I probably spent $20,000 in restoration and engine hop-up and don't have any illusions about ever being able to get the invested money out. Who cares, it is like reliving my youth in college driving the original car.
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

HOSS429

 i got rid of my pinto for a few months earlier this and the fellow i sold it to thought he could quickly triple his money  .. he wanted 3 grand for it but got no takers .. i got it back for less than i sold it to him after he broke the rear end .. its` still a 1 thousand car all day long .. 

Henrius

Quote from: Wittsend on October 28, 2020, 12:50:44 PM

Frankly I'm not getting the price older cars sell for regardless of condition. $200 parts cars are now $2,000-$4,000. A decent car that was previously $4,000 now sells for $10,000-$14,000. I'm not getting that there is such a demand so it baffles me. Maybe sellers who believe there is ONE GUY who just HAS TO HAVE the car and will sit and wait for him at a highly inflated price. I know when you are the seller this all seems good but the next time you go to buy..., not so much.

Do many really sell for asking price, though? Or even close to it?

I did a used Pinto search and came up with a few from AutoTrader and Hemmings. The asking prices were from $4000 for a real beater to $14,000. But the cars stay up for sale forever.

There was an outfit called Pinto Barn in Southern California that restored old Pintos to sell. Their final Facebook post before closing was bitter. They spent a good deal of time and money restoring these cars they loved, and complained that nobody wanted to pay more than $3000 for them.

BarnFinds says NADA values a perfect 1972 Wagon at $15,000. But try to get that. It is a thin market out there for collectable Pintos.
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

mikerich1972

I have 3 from the early 70's here.. and they all run like new. :)

1976 Pinto Wagon 2.3L
1972 Harley Davidson FLH 1200
1972 Pontiac Firebird 350/350
2003 Ford Motorhome
2018 Ford Focus

Henrius

Unfortunately for those of us in California any car 1976 (like the Pinto mentioned) and newer has to be bi-annually smog checked. So for us the desired cars are 1975 and older.  And our smog check requires a visual inspection for ALL smog equipment aspects (many parts likely no longer available) not just does the car sniff out clean enough.

Frankly I'm not getting the price older cars sell for regardless of condition. $200 parts cars are now $2,000-$4,000. A decent car that was previously $4,000 now sells for $10,000-$14,000. I'm not getting that there is such a demand so it baffles me. Maybe sellers who believe there is ONE GUY who just HAS TO HAVE the car and will sit and wait for him at a highly inflated price. I know when you are the seller this all seems good but the next time you go to buy..., not so much.
[/quote]

Thanks for giving us normal people yet another reason not ponder moving to Commiefornia.

The increase in old car prices is no mystery. 30 billion $ of new currency is being injected into the economy every week. The first thing that is inflated is asset prices- stocks, real estate, gold, and of course old car prices. It has got to happen macro economically. You ain't seen nothing yet- just wait until 2021 for inflation to hit consumer goods.

On a positive note, your old cars will be a good inflation hedge.
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

mikerich1972

Yeah, I was at BJ in 2019 and watched the  Pinto sell. It sold for $16,500.


I checked the car prior to the sale...under the hood was not all stock, the pedals looked to have a bit more wear than 24K, and the paint was not original. Other than that, it seemed to be a solid car.


Email me if you want a couple pics of it prior to the sale.
1976 Pinto Wagon 2.3L
1972 Harley Davidson FLH 1200
1972 Pontiac Firebird 350/350
2003 Ford Motorhome
2018 Ford Focus

Wittsend

Recently we had a poster ask about car values. It was a tough call to even guess because the gulf between what is being asked and what a (typical) buyer is willing to pay seems quite large. I am utterly amazed at the local Craigslist cars that seemingly are there for YEARS. In those cases the seller seems to prefer a yard ornament with significant patina rather than actually selling the vehicle for any more that an extremely inflated price.

If my years shopping at Pick Your Part have any relevance I've seen some these overpriced cars that stay on CL for years show up in the yard where I know they didn't get more that $175 for it. Sad all the way around.  The guy never got his money, the car got scrapped and the only good that came is a few people got parts.

dga57

Transactions like the one you describe at Barrett-Jackson are, unfortunately, part of the problem.  People watch those auctions on television and start to believe their cars are worth the same amount of money.  That is almost never the case.  The cars sold through Barrett-Jackson, and featured on their television auctions, are the absolute cream of the crop; true museum quality cars.  They are essentially perfect, ridiculously low mileage, and meticulously documented; something 99.9% of us can't claim, but it doesn't stop the armchair observer from dreaming his "project car" is in the same category.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Wittsend

Wow, that was 13 years ago.  Unfortunately for those of us in California any car 1976 (like the Pinto mentioned) and newer has to be bi-annually smog checked. So for us the desired cars are 1975 and older.  And our smog check requires a visual inspection for ALL smog equipment aspects (many parts likely no longer available) not just does the car sniff out clean enough.

Frankly I'm not getting the price older cars sell for regardless of condition. $200 parts cars are now $2,000-$4,000. A decent car that was previously $4,000 now sells for $10,000-$14,000. I'm not getting that there is such a demand so it baffles me. Maybe sellers who believe there is ONE GUY who just HAS TO HAVE the car and will sit and wait for him at a highly inflated price. I know when you are the seller this all seems good but the next time you go to buy..., not so much.

caravan3921

Found a 2007 article on the internet, and a '76 all stock and original with 7,000 miles sold for $12,650, plus auction fees. The article stated that this was one of the most talked about cars of the entire auction weekend.

Wittsend

Can't answer that but it is odd that the auction is broadcasted, the price public at that time, but you have to register to see the price later. They likely want you registered as that become a multi-pointed advantage to them.

caravan3921

Does anyone in Pinto community know what the mint Pinto hatchbacks typically go for at Barrette-Jackson auctions? For the sold cars, it states you have to register to view price. Why are sold prices guarded secrets? For example, I saw a gorgeous '74 Ford Pinto Hatchback, 24,000 miles, one owner, Grabber Blue in color. It sold at the Scottsdale 2019 auction. It would be interesting to know what its sold price was. Anybody know anything?
(On a side note, we're now settled in AZ and our ''78 blue baby is running great. Had to put a bit of extra steering fluid in her a couple days ago. It's so nice to finally see an AZ license plate on her.)