Mini Classifieds

71-73 Rear valance panel
Date: 01/14/2021 06:54 pm
4-14" Chrome Plated Wheels 4 x 108 + 0mm offset with new tires

Date: 09/12/2018 12:33 pm
Anyone scrapping a 1980
Date: 03/13/2020 08:46 pm
2.3 turbo intake (lower)

Date: 07/15/2020 09:29 pm
72 PINTO WAGON

Date: 09/23/2018 06:16 pm
Looking for a 1980 windshield
Date: 07/30/2020 04:51 pm
1980 Pinto taillights
Date: 12/26/2017 03:48 pm
1970-1973 British 4 Speed Manual; Parts or Whole
Date: 03/17/2019 03:57 am
Intake, Head, and valve cover gasket sets

Date: 12/10/2017 01:14 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 826
  • Online ever: 1,722 (May 04, 2025, 02:19:48 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 711
  • Total: 711
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Has anyone seen the new Pinto Wagon?

Started by 71pintoracer, April 23, 2020, 05:17:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Wittsend

What I'm finding (contrary to Hagerty articles) is the Corvair is NOT a cheap car - at least parts wise. $150 for main bearings, $100 for rod bearings. Early rear wheel bearings are hard to find and $250-$300 each. They may not have water pumps and radiators but there are many pricy aspects to what it takes to air cool the car. And apparently a tossed fan belt can overheat the car quickly and the end result of that is valve seats that come loose. The remedy for that ("deep seats") with a full head (2) rebuild is is over $1,500!

So, the Pinto by comparison is still quite reasonable. Sadly it doesn't have the parts following that the Corvair does even though they had a similar build run.

sedandelivery

I am an old guy so I remember when Corvairs were common. The  major problem with them, by lots of folks I know, was some type of seal in the engine going and putting fumes into the car. That is about it! The flipping over thing at least here was not a problem I do not remember any flipping over!

Wittsend

I had an Audi 5000 turbo (unintended acceleration), have a Corvair (roll over) and a Pinto (explosive). I guess I have a Death Wish.  ;D 


Charles Bronson use to be my favorite actor. An old girlfriends brother was his wife's horse trainer. I actually went to his house once but he didn't answer the door when we picked her brother up.  :(

sedandelivery

That is a good idea. Do you know some people won't even go near the car for fear it will go up any second! The power of the media!

Wittsend

I'd tell them, "when it happens you will invite them to the BBQ." But then add, "don't expect and invite any time soon."  ;D

sedandelivery

As per the Chevy gas tank a news crew tried to cause one to blow and they had to rig a torch to it to make it happen, and got caught! Just as the Pinto on Top Gear they had to ignite it to blow, and it did not anyway! The media is for sensationalism not facts. I get told by people, when is it going to blow up?! (Have a 1980 Bobcat)

Wittsend

I can't figure out why the hatchback seemed to disappear. There are still a few "sorta, kinda" but no, not really (more wagon-esk). 40 years ago when I moved out of the home I borrowed my brothers Pinto to move my stuff. I've hauled 350 Chevy engines in the back of my Mazda 323 and a couple of inline 6 engines in the rear of my 240Z. They were, "The truck that wasn't."

krazi

bring back the rear wheel drive compact platform. might not be time yet for the Pinto name, but a great time to bring back the Mercury division. rear drive compact, intermediate, and full size sedans. and a coupe in there somewhere as well. the Bobcat, Monarch, Gran Marquis, Marauder, Montego, and the Cougar. the reason nobody is buying sedans anymore is because they're boring or not advertised. anyone see commercials for chevy's SS full size sedan? v8 power with either automatic or stick available. even though it was a rebadged Holden Commodore shipped over from Australia, it seems like an exciting car to me. but nobody knew about them. because they weren't advertised.
yeah, I'm Krazi!

Mason66

Quote from: JonzWagon on May 21, 2020, 01:01:27 PM
I have an old Pinto wagon. And I also have a 2016 Ford Fiesta, which I think is a Pinto in spirit. It's small basic, cheap (subjective) with a small engine and limited options. isn't that what a Pinto in the 1970's was??


Wasn't the Focus the successor to the Escort, which was the successor to the Pinto?

71v8Pinto

Quote from: 71pintoracer on May 21, 2020, 11:53:42 AM
Yep exactly. I work for Ford and that's the word. Everyone relates the Pinto as the car that "blows up." With all of the retro stuff that goes on they would love to have a new Pinto because people loved them but it just can't happen. They want the Pinto swept under the rug and forgotten about.

I trust your word and I hope they never do, we with the original cars have something special, to bring the name back on some new platform would cheapen it and make me angry.

71v8Pinto

entropy

1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

71pintoracer

Quote from: r4pinto on June 03, 2020, 05:40:57 PM
Isn't it funny how people remember the Pinto for its exploding gas tank, but the Chevy square body pickup gets overlooked. Nobody mentions our trucks with the saddle type gas tank mounted outside the frame. Even though fire deaths surpassed the Pinto by more than twenty times. They  didn't get the label like the Pinto. I like my Pinto. It hasn't been assembled in 3 years but I keep it... for now.
Yep exactly. There are quite a few others with issues that never got any press. I had a '70 Chevy c10 stepside that had the gas tank behind the seat in the cab!! It smelled like gas fumes all the time
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

dga57

Hey Matt!  Good to have you back!  Hope all is well!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

Quote from: 71pintoracer on May 21, 2020, 11:53:42 AM
Yep exactly. I work for Ford and that's the word. Everyone relates the Pinto as the car that "blows up." With all of the retro stuff that goes on they would love to have a new Pinto because people loved them but it just can't happen. They want the Pinto swept under the rug and forgotten about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't it funny how people remember the Pinto for its exploding gas tank, but the Chevy square body pickup gets overlooked. Nobody mentions our trucks with the saddle type gas tank mounted outside the frame. Even though fire deaths surpassed the Pinto by more than twenty times. They  didn't get the label like the Pinto. I like my Pinto. It hasn't been assembled in 3 years but I keep it... for now.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dga57

I agree that we're not liable to see a new Pinto come out of Ford Motor Company within our lifetimes, but I think it bears mentioning that Ford's attitude toward the Pinto has softened in recent years.  In fact, owners of Pintos have even been invited to participate in Ford's annual car show and Ford Racing officials have actually graced us with their presence at Pinto meets.  While the "exploding gas tank" myth is still alive and well, there is now information (besides the PCCA's) online now disputing it and placing the blame squarely where it belongs, with Mother Earth News.  Ford recently resurrected one of its oldest car names to grace its newest Lincoln: Corsair.  For those who don't know, or don't remember, Corsair was an Edsel model more than sixty years ago.  I'm sure no one who knows anything about cars ever thought an Edsel name would be revived!  Give it another 20 -30 years and I think it's conceivable that something could possibly come out of Ford bearing the Pinto moniker; it makes as much sense as spreading the Mustang name across a line of crossovers and station wagons that couldn't be further from the heart and soul of Ford Mustang.  Personally, I'd buy one.  Like you, I like Pintos.  My very first car EVER was a brand new Pinto Runabout when I was sixteen and I've owned a few since, two of which still remain.  I wouldn't hesitate to add a brand new one to the stable if it paid any homage at all to its roots. 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

71pintoracer

Yes it is and had it not been for the bad rep it may very well been called Pinto. However, l can't think of another new Ford car that had the same fanfare that came after the Pinto. lt was the first American subcompact, it was inexpensive, light, low and wide. The seats were low like a sports car, it handled well and the steering was tight and quick thanks to the rack and pinion steering. The body was pattered after the other pony cars, Mustang and Falcon, with a long nose and short deck, and the angled sides and flared fenders were an instant hit. The 1.6 and 2.0 engines came from Formula Ford racing and they were bullet-poof. Even with only 75 hp the 1.6 was a zippy little engine that you could rev the daylights out of and thanks to a close-ratio 4 speed and decent gearing it moved along pretty good! The 2.0 had a cool 100 hp! It didn't take the aftermarket long to notice the Pinto. Body kits, mag wheels, spoilers and performance parts! For a Pinto? Really? Yep. Cams, carbs, headers......My oldest bother bought a '71 Runabout and of course we added all of the above.  ;D  Offenhouser intake, 390 Holley, Isky cam and a Hooker header on a 2.0. And of course a glasspack lol!!! The dragstrips were all 1/4 mile then and let me tell you, quite a few V8 cars got embarrassed by a Pinto!! That dude was screaming with 8000 rpm shifts! So who knows? Would the Pinto still be around today? Maybe. I kind of think it may have gone bye-bye for a while and then very well came back. Maybe it would have been the Fiesta platform. l read an article about the Pinto back in the early 70's about the popularity of them, it stated that the owners of these little cars actually honk, wave and give thumbs up to each other when they pass on the road. Guess what? We as Pinto owners still get that today from people driving anything! Haha! Can you tell that l like Pintos?  ;D
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

JonzWagon

I have an old Pinto wagon. And I also have a 2016 Ford Fiesta, which I think is a Pinto in spirit. It's small basic, cheap (subjective) with a small engine and limited options. isn't that what a Pinto in the 1970's was??

71pintoracer

Yep exactly. I work for Ford and that's the word. Everyone relates the Pinto as the car that "blows up." With all of the retro stuff that goes on they would love to have a new Pinto because people loved them but it just can't happen. They want the Pinto swept under the rug and forgotten about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

PonyRider62

Quote from: 71pintoracer on May 20, 2020, 11:10:00 AM
No there will never be another Ford vehicle named Pinto. This is actually a Mustang and it is total electric and AWD like a Tesla. And it is slated to go into production. But it sure does look like a Pinto!

Because it got such a bad rep?
Save The Ponies!

71pintoracer

No there will never be another Ford vehicle named Pinto. This is actually a Mustang and it is total electric and AWD like a Tesla. And it is slated to go into production. But it sure does look like a Pinto!
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

SpaceCowboy1979

I did see the same picture recently
Is it true

PonyRider62

Save The Ponies!

HOSS429


71pintoracer

If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?