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NEED 77/78 MUSTANG II Left Motor Mount
Date: 04/15/2017 05:14 pm
WANTED: 1979 Bumper End Caps - Front and Rear
Date: 02/16/2019 10:46 am
1979/80 Pinto needs to be saved
Date: 09/10/2018 10:41 pm
V8 rear end
Date: 04/12/2018 10:57 am
Want side to side luggage rack rails for '75 Pinto wagon
Date: 08/30/2018 12:59 am
Oil pan front sump style
Date: 01/10/2017 09:19 am
Gazelle Replicar Pinto powered frame

Date: 01/28/2017 12:30 pm
1971 Pinto Runabout turn key driver

Date: 12/04/2018 07:40 pm
1970-1973 British 4 Speed Manual; Parts or Whole
Date: 03/17/2019 03:57 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Brake and turn signal issues, running out of ideas

Started by clsecmbt, March 15, 2020, 05:27:28 AM

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pmfman

I had a similar problem and it turned out that one of the bulbs was working fine, but the contacts on the actual bulb mushroomed together which shorted 2 circuits together
KDC

KoReynolds

Good job, have to be persistent, always amazing to see how some people fix things

Wittsend

Glad to see you found the problem. Not sure of your location but if you are under a "Shelter in Place" order it likely helped to fill in time. Nothing that soldering and heat shrink tubing can't fix.

clsecmbt

Took me four days to find it, but I did. Stuffed in the rear panel was a wad of electrical tape. Inside that wad was a cut ground wire and the signal wires for the left/right turn signals spliced together. My working theory is that someone did this when the brake switch (which was also re-wired) went out, in order to make the signals act as brake lights.
-1971 Pinto Runabout

KoReynolds

I did replace the cam on mine, didn't change anything. Thanks for the link, I will order one when I get a chance. Thank you guys

Reeves1

I think this is where I got one a few months ago ?

https://www.dearbornclassics.com/70-71-turn-signal-switch.html#

Wire harness was longer than OEM.

I have one in the shop, but the cam is broken.

I found a cam made by Dorman - but they wouldn't ship to Canada.

https://www.autozone.com/electrical-and-lighting/turn-signal-cam/dorman-turn-signal-cam-49301/4916_0_0

Been meaning to get a USA guy to get one & send to me.......but with what is going on in the world right now, thought it better to wait.

KoReynolds

I spent most of the day on it and I have determined it is the switch. I took everything apart and cleaned everything, I bypassed the plug and contacted each male end and got every light to work. When I put it all back together I did have a couple more lights but still missing left rear brake light and turn signal and right front turn signal. I pushed on the lower end of the turn signal cam and then those lights work, I guess the cam has a bow in it or the contacts are worn to the point where it no longer has contact.  With that said, I have looked for a turn signal switch for a 72 and cannot find one, does anyone know where I can get one or is there another one that works in Pinto's?

Wittsend

A lot of turn signal mechanisms have grease on the contacts. Over time dirt gets trapped, the grease drys up and it insulates the contact point.  If the car has been subject to leaks moisture can cause corrosion even on internal connections. Contact cleaner does not (in my opinion) do a good job. You have to use a very light abrasive. To that end the female side of a connector can be difficult. Toothpaste on the connector and repeated insert/removal of the halves THEN cleaned with contact clean might be helpful.

A good way to check grounds is to connect a long wire to the ground at the battery. Then move wire to the external case on the bulb. If it lights up you know the issue is a ground. Many times I have resorted to soldering a wire to the internal car structure (you need a BIG iron) and then to the bulb case. But you know that you should then have a corrosion free ground.

KoReynolds

I replaced both flashers, I am going to dig into this this weekend and see what I can find out, I appreciate you taking the time, I will let you know what I find or don't find

HOSS429

that last post is kinda useless as every action uses the same two wires .. blinkers ,,brake lites and emergency flashers ..the other wire is the parking lamp ..

HOSS429

pressing the brake pedal turns on the green wire . the orange wire and the lite green wire with the orange stripe ,, at the rear the orange wire with the blue stripe is the right side brake lite .. the green wire with the orange stripe is the left brake lite ..

HOSS429

have you checked both the turn signal flasher and the emergency signal flasher ?  they are both located very near each other under the dash and above the glove box ,, you must remove the glove box to access each ,,the emergency flasher is not in question as you say they work .. the blinker flasher is hot  on the one wire all the time and is hot on the other wire when flashing in either direction ..

KoReynolds

Ok here's what I got, blue wire blinks both ways, white with blue stripe flashes for right turn, white with green stripe flashes with left turn. I also have a white wire with red slashes on it, very dim light with key on, green wire with red slashes on it bright light with key on. Retested hazard lights all work except left rear. Right turn activated no interior indicator, yet it works with hazards on. I'm thinking ground still a possibility but where? Could be turn signal switch I guess I should pull it and clean contacts

HOSS429

if you have`nt already remove the lower half of the steering column plastic cover to get access to the blinker switch connector ..i believe the light blue wire supplies the hot to the blinkers as it is only hot with the switch on yet will blink in both directions ..the white wire with the green stripe is the left blinker and will blink when you turn the signal that way  .. the white  wire with the  blue stripe is the right side blinker and will blink when you turn the signal that way .. ..these wires are next to each other on the back side of the connector ,,

HOSS429

everything on mine works so i will do some reverse engineering  type testing as soon as i can find my test lite ..

KoReynolds

I am, nothing hot at the terminals that are not working

HOSS429

are either of you guys using a test lite to check for voltage on the hot side ..

KoReynolds

I have a 72 and am also having issues, have left front and right rear turn signal and right brake light, all hazard lights work. I replaced headlight switch, all bulbs, brake light switch and cleaned all the grounds I could think of, any help would be great

clsecmbt

Swapped the bulbs and turn signal cam for known-good ones from my '71 Maverick, no change. Going to start chasing individual wire resistance until we find the short.
-1971 Pinto Runabout

HOSS429

do the emergency flashers work properly ? ever issue i have ever had with lights has turned out to be a ground  problem ..  maybe even check the turn signal switch itself ..make sure you dont have a 1156 bulb in a 1157 spot .. or if you have put in a LED bulb by mistake ..  i hate electrical problems ..

JoeBob

You said you checked the bulbs, but I had this very problem. For some reason the contact points on the bulbs spread out and made contact with each other. They may not look bad but, I suggest you replace them just to be sure.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

clsecmbt

When we bought our '71 I noticed that the turn signals fired both rear indicators together. Figured it was a ground problem and marked it for follow up.
Since then I have cleaned all of the front grounds, replaced the body ground/negative battery cable, tried manually grounding the taillight housings, checked the bulbs, isolated the headlight and turn signal switches and still no change. While checking the brake light switch, I can see it has been replaced and the harness spliced to accept a later style connector, but I saw no issues. 

When you turn the signals on, the dash indicator and front indicator work correctly, blinking left or right. Both of the rears blink together. When you press the brake, whatever lights were blinking (either side in the front and both rears) light up solid and the signal flasher stops. I've gone over the wiring diagram and I'm not sure what else to do besides start peeling harness tape off and looking for fried wiring. Is there a connector between the dash and the rear of the car I can isolate somewhere? Any advice appreciated.
-1971 Pinto Runabout