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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1985 302 mustang comatability questions

Started by kevin.s 80, September 07, 2010, 06:19:28 PM

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Pinto5.0

That's for sure. There's 10 non-running V8 swaps out there for every running version. The 79 V8 car that I bought ran & drove but had so many things halfassed when it was put together that I sold it off rather than trying to fix them all.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

78_starsky

"It all depends on what car you are doing the swap on."

How true,  i didn't mean it was impossible,  i was more that many think it is easy to just park it, pull it, drop it,  then drive it....

So many oooops'es happen from ill informed or mechanically challenged.  I talk to many guys at car shows who come up and say back in the day they "dropped a 8" into a pinto....  my next comment is, how did it drive... well "we never did it right and bent the front end" or some hack and slash story emerges. Too much power and wrapped it around .....


Pinto5.0

Quote from: 78_starsky on November 30, 2015, 08:20:10 AM
Had to read this thread,  had to comment....

its a week end project to "just drop in a V8"  into anything.... LOL

It all depends on what car you are doing the swap on. Years ago I swapped my 86 Regal from a Buick V6/metric trans to a 403 Olds/Turbo 350 in 14 hours, start to finish. I drove the car for 2 years after that & never had to fix any mistakes from the rushed timeframe. I converted 6 G-body GM's from V6 to V8 over the years & never took more than 48 hours to pull it off.  It just takes mechanical ability to pull most of this stuff off correctly which I think was the problem the OP faced in the 1st place....
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Srt



To bring this back home (so to speak ) in the mid 70's I knew a friend that had a Spearco Pinto. It had been George Spears personal car. 2.0 Turbo and loaded with lots of goodies.  At some point the Turbo died, he swapped in a 289 and within a year or so the car was gone. That car would have been rather unique today.

Not sure if this was his car (it is attributed as a Spearco Pinto) but it was this color/strip scheme. Update: OK, I ask and it is not his car. But, he did say it was very similar to his.
[/quote]

yep that sure looks like a Spearco.  George Spears & Gary Hall (Hall Pantera) ( he had a fast Pinto too) used to visit Ak Millers regularly back then and his car was very nice.  I can't remember the color though.  Used to ride/drive with them down Rosemead in Pico Rivera to the coffee shop. 

What a hoot!
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

78_starsky

Had to read this thread,  had to comment....

its a week end project to "just drop in a V8"  into anything.... LOL

the more i hear ppl say this the more I have to laugh...  i have a friend who has been working on one for 5 years now... 

Even when rebuilding a straight tear down rebuild of a car took us over 3 years on the red pinto...  and now my v8 ranger frame off build is into the 3rd year.

oh its so easy to "just drop in a V8"

LOL    Cheers

79prostreet

I will second what Wittsend said, most of this generation has never had to wait very long for anything. That is one of the big reasons I chose to do my project with my son who at that time was 11( I'm 40 years older than him). He was good for about 3 hours and then turned his focus elseware ,after 4 years of cutting and chopping he could do an all day session . We had some very special times that we will talk about for years to come and also built a great Hot-Rod to boot.
79prostreet

entropy

Just a little aside based on something I saw earlier in the thread.  While the Mustang II oil pan is *really* important, the pickup for it is no different than the one for any front sump SBF.  When I swapped my pan last year, the MII pickup was identical to the one I already had in the engine.  Which reminds me....anybody want a MII oil pickup?
1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

dave1987

I'm working towards a V8 (302) swap in my 78 Sedan as well, been working towards this for about five or six years now. Tons of research and reference information out there, and tons of prep work too! Everything that has been stated is true, it's a lot of work. I'm getting everything together, strengthening the sub-frame and rebuilding the Mustang II donor motor and matching C4 transmission before I start to remove anything. The motor was purchased in Washington and then transported and stored in Oregon, next year we will bring it to Idaho and I can start to rebuild it. In the mean time, I'm still finding time to weld up frame connectors, and eventually build up the traction bars. I already have the 8" rear in the car.

Building a V8 Pinto is like Tim Taylor from Home Improvement rebuilding his '55 Bel Air, it takes a lot of time an patience, and even with that, dedication and more so, many years of all of that.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Wittsend

Yea, I took a peek back in time (2011). Seems there was a:
80 Pinto - engine removed.
Mustang V8 - engine removed, not used.
Mustang SVO - engine removed.
67 Coronet 440 - chugging gas.

I'd assume after four years this went nowhere. Is it a generational thing? Seems like most of the completed swap project cars (at lest completed to running) are done by the over 50 "Old Farts" (like myself). Over in my Sunbeam Tiger world there was a 16 year old kid whose father GAVE him a Tiger. For about a year the kid was active on the Tiger Email Forum.  Then suddenly he was selling the car to buy a mid 90's Mustang. The Mustang is probably worth no more than $2,000 today while the Tiger, even in marginal condition, has skyrocketed to $30,000-$40,000.

To bring this back home (so to speak ) in the mid 70's I knew a friend that had a Spearco Pinto. It had been George Spears personal car. 2.0 Turbo and loaded with lots of goodies.  At some point the Turbo died, he swapped in a 289 and within a year or so the car was gone. That car would have been rather unique today.

Not sure if this was his car (it is attributed as a Spearco Pinto) but it was this color/strip scheme. Update: OK, I ask and it is not his car. But, he did say it was very similar to his.

dick1172762

Maybe not, as his last post in 2011 was about going to a 2.3 turbo in place of the V-8.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Wittsend

Strange that nearly 5 years later this post returns.  So, what ever became of this???  Anyone know. Not trying to be too critical but virtually every, "when I get the money" post I read never results in a completed car. Not just here, but other sites too.  Maybe this one has a happy ending???

RICO2

yep throwing one together is definitely a bad idea . if you wanna drive it , leave it alone . but if you must , take your time and definitely buy another car or youll be walking . imdoing the same thing and finding out its definitely different than the first one I did . but in the end when you do it right the first time , its awesome.good luck.

dga57

Quote from: 71pintoracer on December 14, 2010, 07:12:56 PM
Yea Dwayne, still around! Been busy with a new project, a Honda. Now don't get all bent!! It's a motorcycle!! Ha! :)
(BTW, 1000 posts! Yay!)

   Since Ford doesn't build motorcycles, I'll let that pass!  Hope you're having fun with it!
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

71hotrodpinto

Quote from: 71pintoracer on December 14, 2010, 07:21:11 PM
Just a little concerned about your mechanical ability after reading your posts. Hate to see that fine looking ride you have get chopped up and abandoned..... :( a V8 swap takes a good deal of fabrication.......ask me how I know.....or better yet, read my thread, "71 V8 Swap, Let the Fun Begin!"

Yep to do them cleanly and with limited cash (like i have been trying to do) they take alot of time. And yah its sad when i see a pinto with a "jammed in" V8 swap.They end up on ebay with no engine or trans for $200. Yah people have done it and they work for a while till they get tired of them cause they look as cheap as they are and drive like it. To do the car clean and right so that 5 years from now you will still be proud of your work!
GL!


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

71pintoracer

Quote from: kevin.s 80 on December 13, 2010, 06:58:06 PM
haha! thanks for the pep talk bud
i got more time than money so it may be a while but ill get it done
Just a little concerned about your mechanical ability after reading your posts. Hate to see that fine looking ride you have get chopped up and abandoned..... :( a V8 swap takes a good deal of fabrication.......ask me how I know.....or better yet, read my thread, "71 V8 Swap, Let the Fun Begin!"
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

71pintoracer

Quote from: dga57 on December 11, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
Jimmy!
I was beginning to think you'd fallen off the edge of the Earth!!!  Glad to have you back... hope all is well!

Dwayne :smile:
Yea Dwayne, still around! Been busy with a new project, a Honda. Now don't get all bent!! It's a motorcycle!! Ha! :)
(BTW, 1000 posts! Yay!)
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

kevin.s 80

haha! thanks for the pep talk bud
i got more time than money so it may be a while but ill get it done
dont sweat the petty stuff

dga57

Jimmy!
I was beginning to think you'd fallen off the edge of the Earth!!!  Glad to have you back... hope all is well!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

71pintoracer

Been a while since I have been here but it's good to see nothing has changed......looks like another V8 swap Pinto headed to the scrapyard. Don't bother doing any research, just buy a bunch of stuff and try to throw it in the Pinto one weekend....
Remember the thread Pintony started years ago? "Just say no to V8 swaps!!"   Prime example right here....OK rant over.
BTW, nice looking Pinto you have now.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

kevin.s 80

buying the mustang might have been a mestake all im going to be using from it is the motor minus the pistons, intake, and oil pan/pickup. i only spent 450 on it but it was a big hassle getting it gone with no rearend(that i wont even be using). my buddys got fresh pistons w rings for 75 bucks which is all it should need, theres very little wear on the cylinders so hopefully this will suffice. i bought a 67 coronet 440 to drive during the project but with the 318 in it id spent all my money on gas instead of parts so im waiting on a trade for something a little more economical.
once the new pistons go in the 302 i need an intake and carb, motor mounts, mII oil pan/pickup, rearend, driveshaft, probly a new pressure plate for the t5, and probably a new front end. front suspension has been giving me problems for probably a year now (freeway vibration, jerks on bumps, knocks on bumps acceleration and stopping, pulls hard) i was told i need new bushings but i dont know what they are or where to get them so ill just replace it. i think thats about it hopefully i can get it going pretty soon so i can get some pictures up, and if anybody in Washington wants a nice coronet ill trade you for a little truck?
dont sweat the petty stuff

vonkysmeed

On my 73, started with a 2.0 automatic. 

I bought an 82 Mustang GT to use as parts, I did think the same way of using the mustang rear end. 

To get it to work, I sourced a Mustang 2 rear end (thank you TIGGER)  Its spring perches are perfect and will be a direct swap.  If you want to install your own perches on a rear end, you could take one from a granada or maverick as parts can be sourced. 

I used the rear end as my starting point and used the mustang driveshaft to the mustang transmission (SROD) and engine (sort of, more on that later)  I also used a complete set of mustang 2 motor mounts including the frame mounts.  I did need to make the tunnel bigger at the firewall to fit around the bell housing.  Doing this I did need to move the radiator forward, but made a monte carlo bar to replace my main core support at the top. 

Interesting findings

Mustang GT and Pinto drive shaft are same length, mustang is a lilttle larger in diameter.
biggest issue I had was getting the exhaust out since I did not want to cut my fenders out.  I used ford explorer cast headers backwards
My 302 was taken out of the car before I bought it and a 351w was in its place.  I did not know the difference at the time. 
The trans is the SROD (aluminum top loader 4 speed), the T5 did not start in the mustang until 83.
73 Pinto Runabout
351w from 74 galaxie
Heads from 69 Mercury Cougar
82 Mustang GT SROD Transmission and driveshaft
Mustang II rear end with Fairmont 3rd member
6 point cage

71hotrodpinto

WOhhhh there turbo!! You say this is your daily driver??? Dont start the swap untill you have a reliable backup car! I thought I was going to be done in 6 months! HAHAHAHAHAHAH YAh its been 7 years for me. (kids, work, money Etc etc!)
Give yourself at least 3 months if you can work on it everyday for 6 hours and 13 a day on the weekends. If you just wanted a basic "geterdunn" swap. SOoo many things pop up you cant even begin to describe them. Its not as simple as a swap from a 4 banger Mustang to a V8 mustang. Near Nothing bolts up.
Dont mean to discourage you but ive heard of too many people starting this project and never finishing it because of money time and effort required.
Good luck to you.


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

kevin.s 80

Thanks alot for the info I took the 302 apart today just to see where it's at, it blew oil smoke when I took it out but the cylinder walls were in great shape hardly a ridge at all I'll be installing the explorer gt40 heads and changing piston rings,
I'm not going to touch the pinto until everything is ready it may take a while before I gather everything but it's my daily driver so I want things to go smoothly
I finally found a t5 tranny 87-93 , so that's one less thing to worry about
I need more advice regarding the rearend swap, mine and the donor has the same length the mustangs will give me 2 inches lift. Is there a part I can install to prevent the added torque of the big engine from ruining my leafs?
dont sweat the petty stuff

Pinto5.0

Quote from: popbumper on September 24, 2010, 07:08:48 PM

What? You mean RSM didn't have a clue on the firewall thing? Wow!  :lol:

Chris

That was the 1st time I heard anyone talk about clearancing a post-'74 firewall. I wont know for sure on my own since I plan to make my own mounts rather than use Stang II parts.

As for swapping the '85 axle in, it will handle the power but it will take some serious fab work to adapt it to leaf springs. 8 inches bolt right in.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

RSM


popbumper

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on September 09, 2010, 02:51:17 PM
RSM pretty much spelled it out. You wont need to mod the firewall though. Thats only on pre '74 Pintos. You will definitely need a better rear & cooling with the V8 though.

What? You mean RSM didn't have a clue on the firewall thing? Wow!  :lol:

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

RSM

If you can, find an 8" out of a Mustang II with the V8 or V6. Both will work and are 4 lug. Both my 79 trunk and 80 wagon needed the firewall clearanced a bit. I went a bit overkill on the 80 but I wanted to make sure I had room.

kevin.s 80

okay so i bought that thing today 450 bucks cant go wrong, it ran good might rebuild for the hell of it. are you saying i need a better rearend than the one in the mustang or from my pinto? and for the mounts you said i move just the drivers side back an inch, or both sides? wont that mess with the alignment?
the radiator will most likely be replaced, all emissions stuff gone, as far as i know all i need now is a tranny, the oil pan stuff, new front end, and maybe some headers. its a 302 5.0l HO engine if that changes anything, my biggest uncertanty is the driveshaft, once i get my tranny if it bolts up will the shifter rod line up with the current hole? and are driveshafts easily lengthened or do i buy a new one with the right length?
sorry for the inexpierience but i do apriciate the help
i have been asked to sell my car three times this week!!!  never
thanks again

dont sweat the petty stuff

Pinto5.0

RSM pretty much spelled it out. You wont need to mod the firewall though. Thats only on pre '74 Pintos. You will definitely need a better rear & cooling with the V8 though.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

RSM

First you need to know that the firewall will need modifying in order to get the engine in. Second you need a Mustang II oil pan and motor mounts and oil pump pickup tube to make it fit correctly. Then you will have to move the drivers side frame mount back 1"...if your running the 2.3 in the car. Then you need to figure out your exhaust system. Then your cooling system. An axle out of a Mustang with a v6 or v8 will bolt in. If your Pinto has a v6 then the axle in the car will work...it just goes on and on. You need to take everything into consideration when you do this. It's not a cut and dry weekend job, it will take time. Get as much info as you can before you do anything. Make a list of everything that has to be done and all parts you need to do it. I'm not trying to bust any bubbles...just being real about it. My wagon project has been going on for a long time. I just do a little here and a little there. It should be complete in the next 6 months or so. Good luck!!