Mini Classifieds

Pinto Parts Windows & Windshield

Date: 11/12/2020 08:28 pm
77 pinto
Date: 08/22/2017 06:31 pm
1971 2 lt Cam
Date: 10/10/2020 06:27 pm
Custom Pinto Project

Date: 06/12/2016 07:37 pm
Bumper, grill and fender wanted
Date: 12/24/2016 04:13 pm
FLOOR PANS
Date: 06/12/2020 07:24 pm
2.0 Mickey Thompson SUPER RARE cam cover and belt guard
Date: 08/27/2018 11:11 am
Oil pan front sump style
Date: 01/10/2017 09:19 am
Parting out 77 Bobcat Hatch
Date: 11/06/2017 04:16 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,576
  • Total Topics: 16,268
  • Online today: 195
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 173
  • Total: 173
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

top twenty worst cars

Started by jonz2pinto, August 07, 2015, 04:36:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

r4pinto

I liked my dads vega. Even though the driver door wouldn't latch if opened and windshield pillar badly rusted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dianne on August 11, 2015, 02:59:34 AM
Vegas were very very bad!!!!
They were ok after they put sleeves in the block, had a neighbor that put a 150,000 on one, when he sold it it was still running fine. The panels were cool cars and even nicer with a small block in it. :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on August 10, 2015, 03:36:40 PM
Guess everyone has had a share of bad cars over the years , and I think I my have lucked out , the only car that if I could have crushed it I would have got five gallons of lemonade out of it , and worst it was my first NEW car , got it the first week they came out , the pos was a chev Vega GT , in the four or five months I had the car it had three engines , block problems , rear track rods pulled out from the spot welds , last straw was when the third engine decided to seize, 100 miles away on a camping trip, friend of mine pulled me back home with his pinto, with both cars loaded with people and camping gear, that was it for me , the next day I got my first pinto, could not kill it and found to be super reliable, the only other I can think of is a 73 GMC truck , the gas mileage sucked for a six and the back of the cab rusted out before I finished paying for it , the rest over the years I was lucky , still we all fear we have one of those huge yellow lemons with our name on it just waiting for us to buy it 😜

Vegas were very very bad!!!!

My worse car was a 1978 Monte Carlo I bought new and traded in my 74 Mustang II (one of my best cars). The Monte Carlo had stuff falling off of it like crazy and had problems until someone hit me and totalled it!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Guess everyone has had a share of bad cars over the years , and I think I my have lucked out , the only car that if I could have crushed it I would have got five gallons of lemonade out of it , and worst it was my first NEW car , got it the first week they came out , the pos was a chev Vega GT , in the four or five months I had the car it had three engines , block problems , rear track rods pulled out from the spot welds , last straw was when the third engine decided to seize, 100 miles away on a camping trip, friend of mine pulled me back home with his pinto, with both cars loaded with people and camping gear, that was it for me , the next day I got my first pinto, could not kill it and found to be super reliable, the only other I can think of is a 73 GMC truck , the gas mileage sucked for a six and the back of the cab rusted out before I finished paying for it , the rest over the years I was lucky , still we all fear we have one of those huge yellow lemons with our name on it just waiting for us to buy it 😜
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: dga57 on August 10, 2015, 12:15:25 PM
It wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't bought the damned thing brand new! :(

Dwayne

Mine was 2 years old with only 25,000 miles when I got it. I guess they worked the problems out on it. I got mine in 1999 for only $8,000 because the guy got shot in the head in it. I can tell you that the blood from the brains that splattered never came out either. But I loved that car and loved telling people it was brain blood splattered - they would all get grossed out LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dga57

Quote from: r4pinto on August 10, 2015, 12:12:47 PM
Sounds like my old Grand Prix


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't bought the damned thing brand new! :(

Dwayne
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

Sounds like my old Grand Prix


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dga57

If my Catera had run, it could have easily become one of my favorites too.  Like you said, it handled great!  Mine, unfortunately, sat in the dealership service dept. for approximately ten days for every three days we had it home trying to use it.  No joke!  We actually put more miles on the loaner cars than we did our own vehicle!  Warranty repairs topped $9000 in the eighteen months we owned it.  It was, hands down, the WORST car I have ever owned!  Kept hoping each time it was towed in would be the last, but it didn't work out that way.  By the time I finally threw in the towel, we had passed the time frame for doing anything under the Lemon Law.  The last time I picked it up following a repair, I drove it less than two miles to a Ford dealership (first one I came to) and traded it in on a new F-150 4x4.  That didn't fix the car's problem but it certainly took care of mine!  lol


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dianne

Quote from: dga57 on August 10, 2015, 07:54:41 AM
I agree.  I had a 1987 and it was actually a pretty spiffy little car.  The first ones were a lot more Cavalier-like.  The Cadillac that I most regret buying is a 2000 Catera.  It was a total POS, worse even than the 1982 Coupe Deville diesel that I had back in the day!

Dwayne :)

I absolutely loved my Catera, and it was probably one of the best cars I ever owned. Actually on the top 5 in my lifetime. I hear that many hated that car and had problems, but I honestly never did and loved it. Handled like a banshee also!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dga57

Quote from: Mason66 on August 09, 2015, 06:39:41 PM

For the record I don't think the Cimmaron was a bad car.  A Cavalier with power windows is a good thing, not for the money they charged, but that is another matter.

I agree.  I had a 1987 and it was actually a pretty spiffy little car.  The first ones were a lot more Cavalier-like.  The Cadillac that I most regret buying is a 2000 Catera.  It was a total POS, worse even than the 1982 Coupe Deville diesel that I had back in the day!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Mason66

I want to preface my comments by saying the Pinto has always been one of my favorite cars.

Maybe the Pinto didn't make the list this time because so many bad cars have been made since then.

I am sure we can all name 10 or 20 that we would never buy again.

For the record I don't think the Cimmaron was a bad car.  A Cavalier with power windows is a good thing, not for the money they charged, but that is another matter.

dianne

Quote from: r4pinto on August 08, 2015, 08:33:12 AM
Funny how the perspective of the car has changed somewhat since information was released in the past few years- Please correct me if I'm wrong about the timeframe as I tend to be from time to time. Of course all of us knew about it being blown out of proportion

Yeah it was. The main page has some good info on it...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

r4pinto

Funny how the perspective of the car has changed somewhat since information was released in the past few years- Please correct me if I'm wrong about the timeframe as I tend to be from time to time. Of course all of us knew about it being blown out of proportion
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dianne

Quote from: sedandelivery on August 07, 2015, 06:39:46 PM
. People ask me if I am afraid my cars will explode. Less often than before though.

LOL I tell them that it could explode at any time and ask them if they want to take a ride. In all honesty I tell them I'm joking afterwards and they laugh.

I still laugh at this one, it really cracks me up!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

sedandelivery

. People ask me if I am afraid my cars will explode. Less often than before though.

pinto_one

Yes that's great but I have seen brain dead writers say the a pinto was a very bad car and a death trap , and they do not have any background in knowledge of cars to start with , or even sat or owned a pinto , we all know better than to believe any of them anyway ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

jonz2pinto

About.com in the auto section lists twenty worst cars to own.Pinto did not make list unlike Vega,Cadillac Cimmeron,Yugo etc.Its glad to see Pintos reputation is better than a lot of new cars also.Sorry for not posting link.I am not good at using tablet for cut and pasting.
Pinto-is short for pint-o-fun.