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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

How does a 4 bbl fit on my pinto

Started by rowdyrunabout, November 12, 2014, 05:21:11 PM

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dick1172762

Quote from: rowdyrunabout on November 26, 2014, 07:47:48 PM
OK, say it... "I told you so." Put the Holley 8007/ 390cfm on the offy dp. Had a lot more/ faster/ throttle/ etc. But
I walked around the car and was shocked to see header pipes 3 and 4 glowing like the iron under a blacksmith's hammer! Have a 3" header narrowed ton 2.5 out. I do have a muffler. My machine shop said sounded like the exhaust wasn't getting out fast enough. On line it said fuel was not getting burned causing it to burn out the header.
so I guess I'm back to too much carb------or the offy intake really is crap. And I'm back to what to do. I hate to put a stock carb back on and go back to no power. Maybe one last thought. The carb had problems. Did look like one primary was dumping more than the other.
Want to sell that linkage kit? I know a guy looking for one. Let me know if you do.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

amc49

You don't have to be an engineer to realize that two runners that gently drop down to gradually swing out will flow different from two where the mix has to hit a flat then hard turn sideways, but I have been porting things for easily that long as well. With lots of study on how air flows and DOESN'T flow, which is just as important. The information is out there, you just have to look.

Nobody said manifold was bad, just the quick copout that most take that makes it worse with porting work. Raise the plenum up instead of down which crams room tighter and it allows more air turn space and it gets even better but if you don't do it you'll never know. Basic rule of thumb-the straighter the port the better the flow, if port must turn then doing it gently ALWAYS flows better than hard forced turns. The outboard runners there already have a pretty hard turn before one even thinks about opening it up to make the turn even harder, the manifold was designed for dry flow (EFI) not wet and why it does that. When your reversion pulse from closed intake valve filters back up the runner it will then clearly interfere with mix feeding into the inner runners. You want that pulse to go UP to dissipate into the bigger plenum area, not sideways where it can mess with your other pair at the entry. Removing much of the top turn into the outboards has predisposed the reversion to do that.

Most use the one inch adapter, two inch is far better flow wise, put one of each on manifold bottom, look in the top and compare and it becomes instantly obvious. You then do not have to butcher up the top of the lower part other than radiusing the hole edges. Much of the thought needs to change up slightly depending on whether 2 or 4 bbl. used too.

Air needs room to turn and always............cram the turn into a shorter area and you always lose flow. Why you can throw a one inch spacer on top of almost any 4 bbl. V8 intake out there and pick up 10-20 hp. The extra height then allows for a more gradual turn into the top of the runner and shields the turn to a degree from the straightline inertial effect of full open butterflies.

A very few manifolds actually intend to hit a flat to slow air down so it can make a turn better but the distance doing that is generally very critical and off only 1/4" in spacing can cost half the power of the intake. The Smokeram SBC single 4 bbl. crossram was like that, just like the 2X4 bbl. crossrams. They were extremely sensitive to distance spacing and easy to screw them up. We used to run the AMC version used on 2X4 390 AMX SS/C Hurst replica cars.

At the family garage we ported out scads of different engine heads and other parts, lots of SBC and BBC as well as plenty of others. I personally ported plenty of inline 4 and 2 stroke bike as well. We built lots of drag race engines too, the GM dealer across the street flooded us with work.

postalpony

Hey amc49
Wher did you get your info from?  Are you an engineer?  I have been doing
this kind things for 40+ years with people telling me "that won't work", and
trust me they have had to eat their words.  Have you ran any tests that says that
my modifications are  in your words "are a major problem"?  I would like to
know why this manifold is so bad & works so well ??   Just wondering.


1980 Hatchback was a "Postal Unit" on the
west coast in it's early life. Now residing
in Ohio, But we don't haul the U.S. Mail anymore;
Now all we do is HAUL!
5th gear 4700 rpm & still pullin'= 113+  mph

UPDATE-83.762 mph in 4th gear As verified by a W Va State Trooper-WITH 1 GEAR TO GO 6-2-11

amc49

And obvious the major problem there with that intake. When you lower divider walls to create a plenum the runner entries will flow worse because you have removed the turn radii at the top of the runners that eases vertical flow into sideways. The outsides are much worse in that respect than the insides. I personally would put more plenum on top with a spacer and leave the top 1/2"-1" of intake alone (radius the runner edges slightly) so that the flow enters the runners better. That sudden right angle turn when the mix hits the flats to have to turn sideways is a power killer. Problem also, the extended plenum higher makes for hood clearance issues IIRC. A 2'' thick spacer like Esslinger looks gangbusters there. Just gotta fit it under the hood.


postalpony

Hi Guys
Just jumping in here with my setup.  A lower EFI manifold modified to fit an
oval port head, opened up to create a small open chamber for fuel distribution
between cylinders. I machined an adaptor plate for the 390 Holley carb, this seems
to work very well, as several people have discovered. lol
1980 Hatchback was a "Postal Unit" on the
west coast in it's early life. Now residing
in Ohio, But we don't haul the U.S. Mail anymore;
Now all we do is HAUL!
5th gear 4700 rpm & still pullin'= 113+  mph

UPDATE-83.762 mph in 4th gear As verified by a W Va State Trooper-WITH 1 GEAR TO GO 6-2-11

amc49

The divider may well help low end torque but it is a choke to top end power. As well, with no divider the port is round and wave tuning then has some effect, with a divider you can kiss any effect from wave tuning goodbye. Divided intake runners cease to be true runners at all if they are half circles, they don't flow for spit on a flowbench. Why the whole Offy 'dual port' gimmick was just that, a gimmick only. The 'C' type competition one did away with the divider entirely.

dick1172762

Just remembered a story in popular hot rod a zillion years ago where they had a running story about a duel port 360 intake on a sbc. On the dyno they found more hp by cutting the divider at the head surface back .750 (3/4"). Never said why they did it. I think  they also put a radius on the divider after the removal of the .750. Any ideas on this????
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

amc49

'Did look like one primary was dumping more than the other. '

One really generally cannot tell that but if you are sure you can, then something afoul in carb that should be easy enough to find.

74 PintoWagon

Why not put a lower EFI and small Autolite 2100 on it???..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

rowdyrunabout

OK, say it... "I told you so." Put the Holley 8007/ 390cfm on the offy dp. Had a lot more/ faster/ throttle/ etc. But
I walked around the car and was shocked to see header pipes 3 and 4 glowing like the iron under a blacksmith's hammer! Have a 3" header narrowed ton 2.5 out. I do have a muffler. My machine shop said sounded like the exhaust wasn't getting out fast enough. On line it said fuel was not getting burned causing it to burn out the header.
so I guess I'm back to too much carb------or the offy intake really is crap. And I'm back to what to do. I hate to put a stock carb back on and go back to no power. Maybe one last thought. The carb had problems. Did look like one primary was dumping more than the other.

Wittsend

Also, I'd get your $ back on the linkage, and get a spring loaded cable setup. Simple is better.

As Rocky Balboa would say, "ABSOLUTELY."

76hotrodpinto

There's a few tid bits on a racing site, that has a lot 2.3 racers on it, and they all seem to mount as amc49 is saying. Not a lot on there about the 390cfm, but some. Also, I'd get your $ back on the linkage, and get a spring loaded cable setup. Simple is better.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

amc49

One other thing........................the link to the linkage kit on page 1 post 5 clearly shows by the pic it is an Offenhauser kit. Kinda blows that Offy guys' information into the water there. He doesn't even know what their own linkage kit works like.......................or why it would be set up like that. Another ex-McDonald's employee?

If by simply using my wits I can tear one way of doing a thing to shreds but not the other way no way would I be wasting time doing it twice, that's why I have the brain, to weed that out with logical reasoning. Why bother if you are going to not rely on thinking to avoid wasted work. And I RARELY end up doing things like this twice, the first time it works well enough, there is no need. I have worked so many carb/intake combinations now I cannot count, you get an eye for what pretty much works and what doesn't. So far I have not run across the Offy manifold that I've liked yet. I've got an Offy 2X4 bbl. AMC intake that looks cool but I'd bet more than a dollar it won't touch my Torker at all in power output.

pinto bismol

lots of well meaning replies in this thread. too bad they seem to conflict. who to listen to? What's gonna work? Im with the guy who said to try em all...well....maybe not the duct tape, and record your results.
good luck rowdy!
Caution.....explosive personality!

74 PintoWagon

Every application is different, the true test would be to try it both ways and record the outcome... Just sayin......
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

You will have condensation and residual in whichever deck is not used commonly. What unused intake volume does, simple physics. ALL dual ports do that. From normal reversion that all engines do. You will always get a reversion spike when the intake stream then hits a closing intake valve, some bounces backwards. Having a manifold that has part of the volume in downtime allows that to stack up in that space. One that is active all the time keeps that residual swept out.

Hot Rod Magazine March 1981 shows the correct way to mount the carb, can't help it if people want to throw away free power to make something easier, I watched it happen (as well as corrected it) at the garage all the time. We worked on and built hotrods of all types. Seeing an Offy on a car made it easy, one of the first things done would be yank that for an Edelbrock if one existed.

The Offy guy saying one thing means nothing, when you take people who could not make a Quarter Pounder 3 times the same way right and then promote them and move them further out into society, well what you get. I hear of lots of retarded information coming out of the speed parts makers nowadays and why Offy is still (not) killing the world with sales now.

The Offy cutaway manifold used for nationwide ads shows lower deck used but it is only half the volume of the upper.

The whole dual port thing was a sad lackluster gimmick when Edelbrock was stomping the crap out of them with repeat product like 180 hi-rise, Torker, Tarantula, the list goes on and on. Edelbrock actually redesigned to come out with totally new product never seen before every time. Offy takes the same crap 360 Equaflow and then adds a cheap divider to say they have totally redesigned which was a copout, any existing that were converted to dual port  had the same shortcomings as the unconverted part. Most like the 2.3 one have no true 'runners' as such, they are simply convoluted and constantly varying space that does nothing as far as engine tuning through length or diameter. '50s company still stuck in the '50s even now. Why any Edelbrock manifold will almost always surpass an OFFY by a LOT in most back to back tests. They did back then as well. In the case of our AMC engines like 50 Hp. difference between a Torker and a supposedly high rpm manifold the Offy 360. It couldn't touch the Edelbrock.

Your car, do as you will...................wait till you see the mileage set up like that, it should suk using the shorter bigger runner and low down in the port 99% of the time. Longer smaller runners increase part throttle fuel mileage, more physics. Looking around on the web at others including V8 ones showed differences, some had lower on primary, some had higher on primary and bigger area runner or smaller runner on primary, expected nonsensical application like Offy often does.

After looking at enough V8 dual port pics something insidious even begins to show. They set up the primary to flow WORSE on purpose so that the driver perceives fantastic gains as the secondaries open up since the primary performs so bad. Or catering to the seat of the pants for advertisement there rather than  giving you more all around power doing what would have been more logical. Can't brag nearly so much doing that. They are actually killing achievable low and mid range on their own product to bump up top end only. That's just plain cynical to me.

Luck.................

rowdyrunabout

tonight's update--- called offenhauser and spoke to their tech. The 6114dp is designed to have the primaries dump in the lower larger port. you want the lower deck to run as the constant. Condensation and residual would gather if the secondaries ported to the lower. That's what he had said! Thanks for everyone's help here though. I'll try to follow up with how it turns out once we get above 30 degrees.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: 76hotrodpinto on November 17, 2014, 08:31:57 PM
Eh, just tie piece of speaker wire to the linkage, run it thru a firewall hole and tie to the pedal. Or if you want to do it right, use some duck tape.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Momma always said there would ALWAYS be at least ONE in every crowd.....................LOL

76hotrodpinto

Eh, just tie piece of speaker wire to the linkage, run it thru a firewall hole and tie to the pedal. Or if you want to do it right, use some duck tape.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

amc49

Your stuff and do as you will but I'm telling you, a mistake with your thinking. Why the linkage is made the way it is. The primary is ALWAYS smaller than secondary, ever look at a spreadbore carb before? It's for better driveability at slow cruising and better mileage as well. The primary feeds the top of the port as well, where 80% of the port flow on a 2.3 is, they are DEAD when feeding the bottom part of the port like you propose.

Open area is NOT necessarily flow and often the indicator of lack of it. I'd think about why no intake on the planet is not simply an open box with short hole directly into the head yet you have never seen that except on dog engines with no power.  In my view bolt that carb up like that and toss 10 hp right off the bat. The longer runners of the higher level make more torque at lower rpm.  Go to the opposite level and all that goes out the window.  One of the biggest shortfalls of a stock 2.3 is that the intake runners were too short. You're doing that all over with a different manifold.

I note of course the Bobcat has the carb backward as well. Funny how most people who do things like that will then tell you later of course how the car was so fast and had so much power. Blah, blah, blah....... Then take them for a ride in yours and they are astounded of course. I always laughed at that.

Yes, lots of places for that crackerjack linkage to come loose repeatedly to cause trouble, dial the linkage in, be sure it works correctly and to wide open and back fully to dead idle; then stake, loctite or even spotweld the major parts of it solidly in place and it will never ever trouble you. But you have to be dead competent at setting it up correctly first. I could make that setup dropdead bulletproof.

But again, your stuff.

rowdyrunabout

I sat it on like the 79 bobcat had it pic'd. Yes the driver's side is the upper side; however, the lower side where i have the butterfly -- looks to have much more volume and flow to the 4 cyls. the top side seems smaller in area and primarily feeds what looks like 1 and 4. If I turn it how you say the linkage will be next to impossible. I might be able to rig it to pull at the bottom of the linkage, but that would likely really stress the cable.

amc49

The manifold there has two levels, an upper and a lower. If the pics I've seen (not the best quality mind you) show the decks there correctly, then the driverside two barrels are the upper deck. Running the carb backward like picced there is a bad mistake, the front barrels then feed into the lower deck and it flowing by itself flows like absolute CRAP. Best way I can think of to toss 50% of the all around performance that manifold can make.


72pair

Simple. I used a fox mustang 2.3 FI throttle cable circa 1987 or so and fabbed a simple bracket off the back carb stud to mount the cable housing.  This cable even has built in return spring. Wish I had a pic to show just how easy.
72 sedan 2.0, c-4 beater now hot 2.0, 4-speed
72 sedan 2.3, t-5, 8" running project
80 Bobcat hatchback 2.3, 4-spd, 97K

dick1172762

As you can see, the linkage on the 79 Bobcat is home made with the primary barrels pointed toward the valve cover. Has to be a longer cable to reach that far. I have seen the primary's pointing both ways. If you can't get it to work, you can sell it on our site. Maybe even to me. LOL
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

rowdyrunabout

here are a couple of pics to help.

rowdyrunabout

OK, I sat my carb just like the 79 bobcat pic. The offy linkage kit looks like it will work, but it will not. The plate that goes on the carb bolts does not fit. It will not go under the bowl to the studs without hitting. It's an inch or so short. I also don't like this offy linkage, because it has about 10 adjustment screws that on a motor are going to fall out! It does have to pull, then push, then pull the other side. Too much to be reliable. Now the bobcat pic uses a stock cable with a simple homemade bracket. Nothing to fall apart. It pulls like stock, just from the opposite side. I want to do the same thing. I can make that pretty easily. New problem.  My accel cable will not reach. The bobcat has a much longer accel. cable than my 76 pinto. How can that be? Is there another vehicle that has a longer accelerator cable? is a 76 and 79 cable different?

amc49

Pics of carb on manifold do not tell the whole tale there. Holley uses pull throttle, the linkage ends up backwards with carb in correct position of front barrels on the high deck of the intake. You have to pull, then push and pull again to recover proper Holley carb action. Why the linkage goes under carb to end up on the other side.

76hotrodpinto

Quote from: amc49 on November 14, 2014, 05:54:30 PM
Make that website www.cookieboystoys.com

That's a nice collection! I believe it's an affliction at that point. I should be so lucky.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

amc49