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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

put a turbo on my 78 wagon 2.3 liter how difficult is it

Started by dpetrie, June 28, 2014, 12:16:34 PM

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65ShelbyClone

I recommend posting a link to the video of it running. It sounds awesome.  8)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

D.R.Ball

Hey biggrgivens, what are the details on how you installed the inline pump and do you have any issues with slope, hill or letting the gas level go below 1/4 tank...

biggrgivens

I just finished my swap and I think it came out nice. I took a complete svo engine , merkur harness, PE (SVO)computer, asnd Large VAM and swapped it into a 72 pinto. Its wasnt all that hard. I got all my parts rtogether first and then went for it.

parts list
2.3 Pinto motor mounts
SVO, turbotbird, merkur  engine and "matching" VAM
PE ECU
Merkur harness
190 inline walbro pump
2000 ford mustnag fuel filter
merkur throtte cable
battery relocation kit to the rear
pinto oil pan
Merkur dipstick
machine the trans crossmember holes back 1"
C4 driveshaft
mustang II rear end

reuse
speedo cable
tap tank for relief


I probably left a bfew things out but my car took about a month to finish. Could have been soon but, I work during the week.

amc49

That may well be why we had success at the hot rod garage. Early on we learned that you cut your learning window of opportunity like 60% when you either turbo or nitrous, therefore we didn't mess with it a whole lot other than on pretty much preset and ironed out setups. We didn't melt down hardly anything as a result, of course it took more work to get the same amount of 'fast' there. That seemed to be no problem though, we could always make things faster and faster. Only limit seemed to be the customer's pocket.

That same limitation in tuning ability was why we were able to every single time blow away street racers with either turbo or nitrous cars with a regular NAed car. If those guys had been any good at tuning at all they would've blown us into the weeds. We did LOTS of street racing back then. Intelligence is the great equalizer, too many just hyped the 'turbo' but had not a clue how to tune one out correctly. At times it was downright embarrassing.

Srt

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on September 17, 2014, 07:59:32 AM
At least today you have the internet and able to ask questions, 35 years ago whole different story, wish I had the money I spent turning stuff into junk learning stuff.  ::) ;D

43 years ago for me. the only resources available were "trial & error"

Al Gore had yet to 'invent' the internet!  ;D
AMEN
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

65ShelbyClone

The 2.0 is a different engine though. The bores are smaller, the chambers are smaller, and it makes power at higher revs, all of which make it a more forgiving candidate for forced induction. The 2.0's willingness to rev also contributes to it making power comparable to a 2.3 with less peak torque.

2.3s are often called tractor engines and it's not just because they sound the part. Hang a turbo on the D-port 2.3 and it makes peak torque in the high 3000s and peak power at mid 4000. Boost onset is the most critical time because cylinder pressure begins rising sharply at a relatively low engine speed. That is why all the 2.3Ts were equipped with knock sensors that triggered aggressive timing retard strategies. They also were all fitted with computer-managed boost controllers that didn't allow full pressure until after 4000rpm, even in vehicles that didn't have octane switches. This was allegedly done to reduce strain on the gearbox, but it doubly functioned to make the engine less prone to knock.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: amc49 on September 19, 2014, 08:05:45 AM
That last post can be taken both ways.......... ....it both confirms and refutes.

He did say "tuned" & we all know very few people get it right
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

amc49

That last post can be taken both ways..............it both confirms and refutes.

Srt

"..... but 9:1 with cast pistons and a turbo kind of is. The engine won't tolerate much boost and even the slightest pinging will probably crack a ring land..."


definite possibility.  careful tuning and knowing what the motor will tolerate is also a key to longevity.
i drove a 71 (O.E. 9.0CI) with a head milled .060", 2.0 with a turbo with stock OEM Ford pistons for over 70,000 miles with no piston failures running over 20#'s boost.

i must say that prior to that accomplishment i did have several piston failures that were eventually traced to fuel distribution & high combustion chamber temperatures at high boost levels & heavy loads.

as with  anything else that you may do to improve upon your ride, you will learn by experience and it is wise of you to thoroughly investigate ALL your options.  my options were few & far between when i was fighting my way through my 'learning curve'.

you have a multitude of options that through the blood, sweat & tears of others on this site have proven to be well thought out & reliable.

dig through the responses you get, hash 'em out, seek out & talk to the guys here. you are not going to get anything less than an honest opinion from any of us.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Wittsend on September 18, 2014, 12:06:48 PMRegardless, when I wrote my Turbo Pinto posting I stated, "On paper it looks like 2 on a scale of 10. In reality it is a hard 7."

I think that is the biggest caveat of a neatly-packaged 2.3T swap coming from a complete donor car. It seems like it should be a simple matter of dropping the engine in and stringing a harness and plumbing a pump, but that's only 30-40% of the work involved.

I had already committed to my swap before I fully understood that. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't start with anything but a factory 2.3 or V6 model. If it was a V6 model, I would probably simplify by using a newer Cologne V6 out of a Ranger or Explorer.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

I don't fault the original poster for asking the question.  So he needs to be credited for at least not just diving in to the project.  And, when those of us replied he was accepting and polite about our cautions. What caused me to respond the way I did was the way he stated the question, sounding like is was a causal conversation amongst his friend. And that clued me to believe there was limited knowledge of everything involved.

A few years back I wrote up the posts "So, you want to build a Turbo Pinto Part 1 and Part 2."  I did so because I wanted to relate my own experience.  I'm not a professional mechanic.  I guess if I had to put a label on myself I'd be an "Advanced Backyard Mechanic."  I've rebuilt engines, transmissions, swapped major components, replaced body panel etc.. But, a lot of these tasks I've only done a handful of times, sometimes only once.  I also have a fair complement of tools (60 gallon compressor, MIG welder,significant power tools and a multitude of hand tools).

  Regardless, when I wrote my Turbo Pinto posting I stated, "On paper it looks like 2 on a scale of 10. In reality it is a hard 7."  And I said that coming from the experience of having owned the Turbo Coupe donor car for 10 years as my daily driver. I still hold to that today.

So, yes, sometimes I think we have to be a bit blunt to capture the perspective builders attention regarding just what it is they are proposing to get into.  And, again, I thank the original poster for accepting my statement, "I mean this politely even if it doesn't come across as such, "If you have to ask..., you shouldn't go there" at its face value that I was not trying to insult, but rather caution him.  And, he seemed intelligent enough to know his own limitations.

amc49

You go wittsend, we did the guy a favor and no telling how much money saved there. The obvious was NOT missed, or the singular thinking of the unlearned that turbo was possibly as easy as changing plugs. It oozed off that OP. I have wallowed through that stuff thirty feet deep, the ideas out there are often quite silly and you just have to try to set people straight. Many refuse to go there though, why so many good cars end up in the yards, owner too stupid to do the simple work needed to keep it going. Yet they still want to go turbo. Heartless but sometimes it needs to be said.

This?

'WOW, no electricity, no first V8 Pinto, no radio, no first turbo Pinto, no fire?  Never do anything that you have done before? Never try something new? No first paint job?  No first carpet?.......'

Someone missing the obvious there, that those who do things like that SUCCESSFULLY generally are not equipped mentally like the OP seemed to be, they make their own rules (AND crucially they will be intelligent, not witless rubes) and are smart enough to have already brought enough learning to the table to realize when they must do even more, the critical thing to success there. Those people generally do not ask anybody much of anything, they just do it, working it out as they go, not being the type who have to be lead like children.

Pinto5.0

I agree wholeheartedly  :)  I spent a year reading & researching turbo swaps before buying a single part. I went the crazy persons route however & started rounding up pieces & parts rather than buying a running donor car. It will make my road tougher but I ended up with a stack of parts that should yield 3 complete running engines plus tons of spare parts for about the cost of a decent running car to strip.

By far the "smart" approach to this swap is to use a running car to gut. My experience level gives me an advantage going the pieces parts route even though I've never had a 2.3T in my life.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Wittsend

Quote from: arkyt on September 16, 2014, 08:39:09 PM
Well, my two cents.  If you have to ask...you shouldn't go there!!!  WOW, no electricity, no first V8 Pinto, no radio, no first turbo Pinto, no fire?  Never do anything that you have done before? Never try something new? No first paint job?  No first carpet? How about, if the info is there learn all that you can.  Then DO IT!   

The question asked regarded "a turbo", singular as in the only item. Here is the full post:
" I have a 78 wagon 2.3 liter. I just put in a 84 2.3 liter engine from a Mustang 2. I have the two barrel Weber carb off the78 tengine. A friend came over last night and said he has a turbo available for this engine. how hard is it to add the turbo this eng"

There was no mention of any proper exhaust manifold for the turbo, nor blow through or draw through method of using the carburetor (which is not recommended). For that matter there was no mention of posing the highly desirable fuel injection as an option. Thus his posing of the question left me to feel he was rather naive of the process and when you read his reply, he admits to being so. Here is his reply:
"Thank you very much for your insight and experienced explanation. I was able to swap out the engine but that was as far, as my mechanical ability goes. No turbo for this wagon. And thanks also toAMC49."

I was actually trying to save him the grief of thinking the process was easy. Myself and others pointed out the important aspects regarding turbo charging the 2.3 engine.  It was not meant to discourage him, but to point him in the right direction.  And seeing what it REALLY took he promptly dropped the idea.

65ShelbyClone

You're right, I know I missed that.

The biggest problem is cast pistons followed by the compression ratio. 2.3T forged dish pistons will drop it to about 8.5:1. combine that with a turbo head and the CR comes down to 8:1.

The non-turbo head is not a deal breaker when used with turbo pistons, but 9:1 with cast pistons and a turbo kind of is. The engine won't tolerate much boost and even the slightest pinging will probably crack a ring land.

Factory 2.3T cars have knock sensors that the ECU uses to agressively pull timing in order to preserve the engine and their pistons are practically indestructible by comparison.

This is why the answer to your question is usually "find a 2.3T instead."
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Pinto5.0

I'm surprised the obvious was missed. Putting a turbo on an N/A engine as the OP was asking is not wise due to the lack of forged pistons in that block & the wrong combustion chamber in the head.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

At least today you have the internet and able to ask questions, 35 years ago whole different story, wish I had the money I spent turning stuff into junk learning stuff.  ::) ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

True. You have to be willing to learn. But you also have to be willing to make a LOT of mistakes along the way and spend a LOT of money. And keep at it. That last is my weakness.  :-[
This applies to almost everything that someone wants to do but has never done before.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: arkyt on September 16, 2014, 08:39:09 PMHow about, if the info is there learn all that you can.  Then DO IT!   
Right on the money there..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

arkyt

Well, my two cents.  If you have to ask...you shouldn't go there!!!  WOW, no electricity, no first V8 Pinto, no radio, no first turbo Pinto, no fire?  Never do anything that you have done before? Never try something new? No first paint job?  No first carpet? How about, if the info is there learn all that you can.  Then DO IT!   
78 sedan
77 V8 cruizin wagon
73 MGB
09 Challenger RT

65ShelbyClone

No turbo swap will be easy. The least difficult would possibly be using the parts from a '79-82 carbureted 2.3 turbo. No need for a high pressure fuel system and no need for major wiring, but it comes with all the idiosyncrasies of the original system and cannot be intercooled.

You could piece together a custom setup, but the results usually reflect what goes into the project. Cheap/Fast/Reliable; pick two.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

A Alves

73 Pinto wagon
77 Pinto panel wagon
87 Mustang GT
06 Mustang GT
99 Mustang convertible current drive
72 Pinto wagon 2.3 turbo 5 spd 4:11 8" rear current drive
15 50th Aniversary Mustang GT current drive when the wife lets me

amc49

'I mean this politely even if it doesn't come across as such, "If you have to ask..., you shouldn't go there." '

I thought to say something like that as well but often I am not tactful enough and it comes across wrong due to my delivery. He's right though, either you know how to do turbo motors whereupon nothing is much of a problem or you don't and then trying to cobble up your own complete setup is an exercise in futile disaster. Why most go to the complete engine setups where most of the tuning and part fit issues are already solved, there are a BUNCH of them and usually the motor gets fried trying to sort running issues out.

dpetrie

Thank you very much for your insight and experienced explanation. I was able to swap out the engine but that was as far, asmy mechanical ability goes. No turbo for this wagon. And thanks also toAMC49.

Wittsend

I mean this politely even if it doesn't come across as such, "If you have to ask..., you shouldn't go there."  A turbo by itself means very little.   As AMC 49 says most all of us purchased (or in my case already owned) a complete donor car of factory turbo origin. Just for reference here a a few things that are different.
Block - provisions for the turbo oil drain back
Pistons - Forged, not cast
Head - Larger combustion chambers to offset turbo boost
Exhaust manifold - Different to bolt turbo on and properly locate it under the hood.
Intake manifold/system - While a carburetor with a turbo is not impossible, it is not advisable. An injected system is far more appropriate.  This includes the proper intake manifold, injectors, fuel lines and high pressure electric fuel pump.
Engine control/wire harness - Your Pinto currently has no electric computer control ( it seems..., I assume you are running the Weber???).  You would need an turbo motor computer and wire harness.

Trying to acquire all that stuff onesy-twosy is difficult, time consuming and can get expensive.  This is a link to a 2 part write up I did on my turbo conversion.  While the 71-73 has a few more difficulties I had the advantage of owning the whole '88 Turbo Coupe donor car.  When I state most people think it is a 2 on a scale of 1-10, but the reality is that it is a hard 7 - believe me.
http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-1/
http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-2/msg76894/#msg76894

amc49

If just a turbo by itself and not the complete system that came on these, then much harder than you think.................most go the easiest route and use a whole entire system with all associated parts.

dpetrie


I have a 78 wagon 2.3 liter. I just put in a 84 2.3 liter
engine from a Mustang 2. I have the two barrel Weber carb off the78 tengine. A friend came over last night and said he has a turbo available for this engine. how hard is it to add the turbo this eng