Mini Classifieds

WTB: 2.0 Mech tach drive distributor
Date: 04/14/2023 06:15 am
1976 Ford Pinto

Date: 07/16/2019 02:51 am
78 hatchback

Date: 03/12/2023 06:50 pm
WTB 1974 or 1975 Pinto Grille and Turn Signals
Date: 04/08/2018 05:47 pm
1977 Pinto Cruizin Wagon

Date: 08/07/2023 02:52 pm
instrument cluster,4sd trans crossmember,2.3 intake
Date: 08/26/2018 06:23 pm
1980 Pinto Parts

Date: 08/05/2020 04:20 pm
Weber dcoe intake 2.0

Date: 08/01/2018 01:09 pm
Rear brake shoes

Date: 01/23/2017 05:01 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,185
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 525
  • Total: 525
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

The Ohio Get Together- Pinto Picnic is this weekend!! Weather is cooperating!!!

Started by rallytwo, January 26, 2014, 05:03:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dga57

Great video!!!  Looks like a fun meet!  Thanks for sharing!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

rallytwo

One more correction:
Go under Youtube (not Utube) website to view the video of the show.
Type in 2014 Pinto Picnic PitchIn.
Rob

rallytwo

You can also find the Utube video by typing in 2014 Pinto Picnic Pitch-in
Can only be viewed on PC, not mobile device.
Listen for Pintos mentioned in the music.
Thanks Loreen Ingrahm for producing this video to music. Awesome job!!

rallytwo

Oops the Url didn't copy and paste so here it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laMBdlv_n4c&feature=youtu.be


Can only be viewed on PC, not mobile devices because of music rights.
Listen for cues in the music to match the scenes and Pinto cues.
Enjoy!
Rob

rallytwo

Here is URL for the Utube video to music of the Pinto Picnic Pitch-In 2014
It can only be viewed on PC, not mobile devices because of music rights.
Listen for Pinto cues in the words of the music and Enjoy!



HiPopinto

Rob

I had a great time

I am glad you Invited me and can't wait until next year

Hope to have the new ECU in the pinto and have some time slips to show all the cool people I met

You really know how to host a get together my friend!

Thanks again
Dave

1978fordpinto

Rob, thanks for an awesome weekend! Your energy and enthusiasm for this event is outstanding. The drive through Geneva-on-the-Lake while watching the reaction of the people will not be forgotten! Attending the cruise in at Annabelle's Diner in Mentor afterwards was a great idea and an excellent way to wind up an awesome day.

We thought that the township park was an excellent setting for this event and we look forward to next year. Can't wait to see the video  ;D .

Ken Davis & Cheryl Hall
aka The Phantom Pinto

rallytwo

Stay tuned for the U-tube video of the show to some "really interesting" Pinto music being professionally produced, pictures, and a special announcement teaser regarding next year's show that will be presented all at once. Give us about a week to put it together.
Rob

walker

Had a great time.  Thanks for welcoming the Pa neighbors to Ohio.  Look forward to next year.   Special thanks to  folks for all the work in planning this event, it was flawless.  Also thank you to the donor of the PCAA gifts,  Guy is very excited about his new clock and stuff. 

postalpony

I am sorry for anyone that was unable to come to thisgathering.  It was a special event. I would like to thank Rob for his exceptional effort in making this happen, Also EVERYONE who helped. Thanks to the Comet& Maverick club for coming. Your cars brought back a lot of memories of the several Mavericks & Comets that I have owned in years gone by.  It was a pleasure to meet & talk with you. Keep up the good work.   Dick Mathias  aka  "Postalpony"
1980 Hatchback was a "Postal Unit" on the
west coast in it's early life. Now residing
in Ohio, But we don't haul the U.S. Mail anymore;
Now all we do is HAUL!
5th gear 4700 rpm & still pullin'= 113+  mph

UPDATE-83.762 mph in 4th gear As verified by a W Va State Trooper-WITH 1 GEAR TO GO 6-2-11

Scott Hamilton

Rob,

Sounds like everyone had a great time! Post the URL for the iTunes video... And pictures, pictures... Fun!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

dga57

Sounds like everyone had a ball - wish I could have been there!  And Rob, thank you for the time and effort you invested in organizing what is clearly a wonderful meet.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

rallytwo

Thanks to all who came yesterday to the The Ohio Get Together Pinto Picnic Pitch-in in Geneva-on-the-Lake, Ohio yesterday!!!
We had 27 cars between the Pintos/Bobcats and Mavericks/Comets!!
Thanks to all who came from distances including Guy and Brenda Walker from Jersey Shores, PA 6 hours away, Ken and Cheryl Hall from Ithaca, NY, Tommy and Brenda from Dayton, and our awesome DJ Jim Madison from Illinois. Thanks to Jim for bringing his '76 sedan which is the 2nd lowest mileage Pinto in existence with 905 miles!!
We were blessed with great weather at the show and at the cruise-in at Annabelles Diner in Mentor, Ohio in the evening where the Pinto presence was recognized by the live band.
We had a police escort with lights and sirens thru Geneva-on-the-Lake which caused quite a stir in town.
There was plenty to eat for all.
We raised a little less than $500 for the Wounded Warrior Project!!
Everyone loved the idea of a dual meet with the Maverick/Comet Club International (MCCI) and we enjoyed comparing the cars.
Look for the U-Tube video being produced of the "rolling" part of the show mixed with some still slides of the cars and folks who attended. Look for the U-Tube address on this posting.
And in case you missed it........ we plan to do it again next year with Mavericks and Comets!! Dates to be announced soon.
Rob


rallytwo

Come join us for the Pinto Picnic Car show with special guests the Maverick/Comet Club (MCCI) this Saturday Aug. 23rd.
Weather is cooperating and looking beautiful.
Hope to see you all there!!
Questions now or day of show: (216)408-1906 Rob

rallytwo

We now have Pintos coming from Kentucky, Missouri, Michigan, New York, and many from Pennsylvania and Ohio!!
Wherever you are ..... come join us for lots of Pinto/Bobcat fun at the Pinto Picnic Car show in Geneva-on-the-Lake, Ohio!!!!

pintmobile76!

yeah that's me and thanks glad y'all like it! cant wait for august!
Devin

rallytwo

Oh that's you in Huron.
Nice '76 wagon!
See you and wagon in August.
Rob

pintmobile76!


rallytwo

Pintmobile76,
We would be glad to have you!!
Email me your address and I can send you a flyer and brochure for Geneva-on-the-Lake.
Hope you can make it.!
Rob
rallytwo@aol.com


pintmobile76!

really hoping I can make it I haven't seen another pinto in my home town other then at the blue sued cruise last year and that was the only one. I want to get out so I can check out some others and see what everyone has done with theirs!

rallytwo

Hey Matt,
Really hoping Murphy doesn't show up for you!!
Should be a good show. The Maverick/Comet Club is really excited about this event. I have been working closely with them. Geneva-on-the-Lake is a really cool place. Will be alot of fun. See ya there.
Rob

r4pinto

Hey Rob,

It's gotta go right for me this time to get the 80 Pinto back on the road. Count me in. Nothing like a road trip in August. Hopefully I can complete the task this year & not have Murphy's Law bite me like in years past.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

rallytwo

Well Dick , you know we can't have a gathering without the PostalPony!!!
I am counting on you!
Rob

postalpony

WOW  Lets see now--A picnic, Pintos, Bobcats, Mavericks, Comets,
and Lake Erie all In one. Now thats an event!!
I am looking forward to this if all goes well on my end.  :) :) :)
                             Later  Dick
1980 Hatchback was a "Postal Unit" on the
west coast in it's early life. Now residing
in Ohio, But we don't haul the U.S. Mail anymore;
Now all we do is HAUL!
5th gear 4700 rpm & still pullin'= 113+  mph

UPDATE-83.762 mph in 4th gear As verified by a W Va State Trooper-WITH 1 GEAR TO GO 6-2-11

HiPopinto

Count me in!!

I will be there with my 1980 turbo pinto

That spot is truly local to me!!

I live on lake road in Geneva!!!!!

Great choice there is a ton to do there, it's a great area for kids as well

Thanks

Dave

rallytwo

Anyone interested in attending this show, please email us so we can add you to our roster to keep you updated on the details of the show.
Thanks!


Rob Smarsch- co-coordinator
rallytwo@aol.com
or
Michelle Garvey- co-coordinator
garvey2@windstream.net

rallytwo

Pinto5.0
The beater parts wagon would be fine!!
Hope you can come!
Rob

Pinto5.0

Hopefully I can have something nicer than my beater parts wagon on the road by then.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

rallytwo

Anyone interested in coming or learning more information regarding "The Ohio Get Together" can  email me their email. I will provide more specifics and details as they become available and add you to our roster.
Thanks!
Rob
rallytwo@aol.com

rallytwo

Well at least you are in warm weather. It is -6 this morning here in Cleveland. Hoping for warm weather by August for the show!
Enjoyed the pic of your Bobcat under Pinto Lane!
Rob