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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Type 9 on a 2.3 bellhousing

Started by fh4ever, April 06, 2014, 09:02:29 AM

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65ShelbyClone

Even the Merks didn't really have trouble with the T9, it just isn't as strong as a T5 and everyone thinks they are inferior because of it. Kind of like hotrodders thinking the 8" rear is weak and undesirable.

A T9 will tolerate more power in a lighter chassis too, especially with steeper gears and/or shorter tires.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

fh4ever

latest update... I had a bad bearing in my T9 so I decided to have it rebuilt.  One shop did not want to touch it .  Another shop that I had dealt with before was familiar with the T9s  and was willing to rebuild it.  He said parts were a little difficult to get but were still available.   I got the rebuilt T9 back in the Anglia and took it out for a spin.  It is working great and it gives me a few more mph's.  The shop said only the turbo Merkurs had troubles with the T9 but a normally aspirated 2.3 should do just fine.   

65ShelbyClone

The numbers for driveshaft length I have been seeing are 45.5" for T5 swaps vs. 47" for stock. That seems to be supported by your using a 45.5" Ford Racing one. (On a side note, does anyone remember when those driveshafts were ~$180?)

Pintos have smaller 1310 u-joints stock, right? I have 1310/1330 hybrid u-joints in my Mustang, so nothing unfamiliar there.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

80_2.3_ESS

Quote from: 65ShelbyClone on July 22, 2014, 11:51:00 AM
Because a T9 doesn't require cutting the tunnel, modifying the middle crossmember to clear a clutch cable, or shortening the driveshaft.

I'm not positive a T5 requires shortening the driveshaft, but I have read reports that it doesn't and that it does.

A Camaro T5 rear section puts the shifter back in the stock Pinto location, but presents a number of other hurdles.

Gotcha. Yes, on my T5 swap, I had to cut the tunnel to fit the shifter. Clutch Cable was re-routed over the cross-member with a simple bracket, so I did not have to modify the cross-member.

I used a bell-housing and T5 from a 4-cylinder mustang. This DID require a shorter drive-shaft. I replaced the drive-shaft with a Ford Racing aluminum drive-shaft (see link below). I had to replace the rear u-joint / plate for the 8.8 with an adapter u-joint to fit the 8" Ford yoke.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=1170
Nick in CT

1980 2.3L Pinto ESS

65ShelbyClone

Because a T9 doesn't require cutting the tunnel, modifying the middle crossmember to clear a clutch cable, or shortening the driveshaft.

I'm not positive a T5 requires shortening the driveshaft, but I have read reports that it doesn't and that it does.

A Camaro T5 rear section puts the shifter back in the stock Pinto location, but presents a number of other hurdles.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

80_2.3_ESS

Maybe I am missing something, but why not go with a T5 from a 2.3l Mustang? Just curious
Nick in CT

1980 2.3L Pinto ESS

fh4ever

a little more info on the type 9....I got this from Vintage Performance Developments website...they say:
Three different input shaft lengths are available
Short  input = 177 mm = 6.97 inches
Merkur input = 194mm = 7.625
Scorpio input = 208mm = 8.19

82expghost

quafe still makes all the parts for the t9 trannys, and depending how deep your pocket goes, 1500 shipped from Europe you can get a new t9 with the updated parts to make it more bullet proof. go to ebay.co.uk and type in type 9 gearbox, they even make full aluminum cases for them too. the hard part is figuring what you want your gear ratio to be
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

fh4ever

interesting...there are differences in the T9 input shaft length --see http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17647  but I was told only one length was used in the Merkur XR4TI in the USA. ....maybe not quite true?
I do have a bad bearing...know of sources in the US for parts for the T9? Anyone here had a T9 apart?  any special tools ?  any special clearances? 

82expghost

it might be an engine tranny year difference, i used the merkur bell and the input was still a 1/4 to long, my motor was a 77 tho, hmmm somthing to look into with 2.3 cranks pilots. probibly sombody on here might know the reasons for this
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

fh4ever

hi, I just got my type 9 bolted to the '74 pinto 2.3.  Here are the details...I used an '86 Merkur T9 and it does not have the external bearing under the input shaft (I am told the 85 and 86 do not while the 87-on do have the external bearing.  The input shaft is about 1/2 inch longer in all places..the sleeve, the spline and the pilot.  Not sure which one bottomed out with the pinto bellhousing, but it did.  The merkur bellhousing is 1/2 longer than the pinto which compensated for the longer input shaft.   No shaft shortening required. It worked perfectly.  The Merkur bellhousing I used has the cut out for the external bearing although not needed for the 86 tranny.  The length of the t9 tranny is also about 1/2 inch longer measured from the front of the gearbox to the end of the tailhousing.  The throwout lever from the Type 9 had to be used as well as the T9 throwout bearing.  The slot for the cable on the t9 throwout arm had to welded up and recut for the pinto cable.  The t9 pivot ball was shorter and a washer under it fixed that.   I was able to re-use the Pinto flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate.  The pinto 2.3 has extra pair of bolt holes above the pinto bellhousing  and these were used on the merkur bellhousing as it is taller. 
Keep in mind this did not go into a Pinto, it is an Thames (Anglia) with the 2.3 pinto.  One more thing..the pinto tranny mount bolts right to the t9 but it is located further back.  It wasn't an issue because I had to make a tranny crossmember anyway.
Now, if i knew how to post pics....
hope this helps someone

82expghost

if you have the t9 with the t9 bellhousing, the swap is a swap, only thing i had to buy was the volvo left motor mount for the trans mount, and weld the throw out bearing arm where the cable goes and redrill to make smaller, and grind off the tip of the input shaft till its flush with the bell housing, and bend the shifter so that it points to the driver
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

PintoMan1

that's what I was afraid of. was really hoping to add a 5th gear!
1973 pinto runabout

82expghost

wont work, internals are different for that 5 gear addition
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

PintoMan1

i have another question guys. is it possible to use the tail shaft from the pinto trans on the t-9 gear box? or is this to much trouble?   thanks for any input!!
1973 pinto runabout

PintoMan1

71hanto, thank you for the info. I have a chance to get a t-9 and was hoping I could use the hurst shifter I have for the pinto. and the trans I seen does not have a shifter.
may have to scratch that idea.
1973 pinto runabout

82expghost

the bell housings are different depth, use the bell housing that comes with t9 (xr4ti), the pintos bell housing is slightly deeper by 1/2 inch, you will have to modify the pinto bell housing to work on t9, where the shift rod pokes out in the front will need to be drilled slightly bigger  and a quarter inch taken out of the input shaft, or you will get a horendis squeeling from the input bearing, clutches are identical, luk part numbers interchange from 77 pinto to 86 merkur, and they use the same rear tail seals and output shafts, and a certain year volvo left motor mount threds into bottom of tailshaft for a trans mount.
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

71HANTO

Quote from: pintoman1 on April 18, 2014, 05:29:03 PM
I have to ask one question.  will the screw in type shifter from the pinto trans work in the t-9 trans or will one have to use the t-9 type shifter? thanks!

Pintoman1,

You will need to use the T-9 3 bolt shifter.

71HANTO

"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

PintoMan1

I have to ask one question.  will the screw in type shifter from the pinto trans work in the t-9 trans or will one have to use the t-9 type shifter? thanks!
1973 pinto runabout

71HANTO

Quote from: fh4ever on April 17, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
hey 71hanto...or anyone else...
my junkyard is telling me the input splines are way different on the T9 compared to the pinto 4 speed, about half as many.  Did you run into this ?  I thought we could use the pinto clutch disk in this T9 conversion.


The T-9s have the 1"X 23 spline input shaft, same as the 2.0 and 2.3 Pinto 4 speeds. The 1.6L Pinto 4 speed uses a 20 spline. Your junkyard guy must be confusing the T-9 with the T-5 that uses the 10 spline. I have both transmissions. Check out the link above to the T-9s listed for sale. Both pictured are 23 spine. In the smallest of chances that the T-9 at the junk yard IS a 10 spine (it won't be), discs are dirt cheap anyway.


71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

Pinto5.0

If it needs a 10 spline disc try one for an 87 Mustang 2.3 non-turbo
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

fh4ever

hey 71hanto...or anyone else...
my junkyard is telling me the input splines are way different on the T9 compared to the pinto 4 speed, about half as many.  Did you run into this ?  I thought we could use the pinto clutch disk in this T9 conversion. 

fh4ever

not an Anglia but a thames.  but just about the same thing.  I may need to contact the people at the link you sent..since they are the experts, but take a look at this link....
http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17647
the last drawing #IND-277-E has the exact same shaft measurements as my pinto 4 speed...it should be a direct bolt in...no sawing ,  the title block in the drawing says it is sierra based.   I thought the merkur was sierra based....right or wrong? 

The drawing at the top #IND-280 seems to be the T9 with the long shaft that everyone uses... and it is scorpio based.   
If you look at the drawing IND -227-E at the dimension 142.9 (from end of spline to face of gearbox), this is the same as the pinto, but if you look at the first drawing IND-280, this distance is 154.5...a difference of 11.6 longer.  This means the splines pass further thru the disk by 11.6mm farther towards the engine than  the pinto 4 speed does.  I think there is enough space between the disk hub and the pilot bearing.   
So, is anyone using the Sierra based T9 shown in the drawing IND-277-E ? or is this t9 not in states? The guys at merkurmidwest may know but lets see if any readers have an idea. 
thanks everyone

71HANTO

Now I get the picture. I assume you are putting it into an Anglia or a Popular. The T-9 is basically a Pinto (FOG) transmission with a 5th gear added off the back so the shifter rail does goes through a hole in front like the 4 speed. The irony is that my race pinto has an English Ford engine (Lotus Cortina) in it. I mated a T-9 (1988 Ford of Germany) to a 2.0 bell (1971 Ford of American) to a 1558cc engine (1966 Ford of England) and had to modify much more than hopefully you will need to do to make it work. The 3.90 or 4.11 gears you have in the back should work good with the 5 speed especially in a light car.

This should help:

http://www.merkurmidwest.com/catalog/i771.html

71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

fh4ever

thanks for the feedback....I did fail to mention this is not going into a pinto....I have a little English ford with a 2.3 "stuffed" in it....and being the car is so narrow,the T9 is a better choice for this car...the transmission tunnel is already cut out and the new tunnel (not made yet) already pushes the gas pedal towards the brake pedal...a T5 is so much wider that the gas pedal would have to go to the left even more intruding in the brake pedal path.  So since the T9 is the exact same size, it will work with out much better and not require more tunnel cutting.  The crossmember is not an issue and nor is the driveshaft.  but I do want to keep the cable clutch.   You are correct I do not have a T9 yet but I have started looking. 
the rear axle is the English axle and has 4.1 ratio...this is why I want the overdrive.
I did see the shifter rail shaft on the pinto 4 speed that requires a hole in the back of the bellhousing...does the T9 have this same set up ?
with this new information, any more feedback? 
thanks guys....I am still fond of the pintos even though this is not going into one !!!

71HANTO

I did want to add that unless you have a modified engine (turbo, hot cam and header, etc.) or plan one, a 5 speed will do you little good. To take advantage of one you need at least 3.40 gears or better in the back. A stock 2.3 with stock gears in back (2.79 or 3.00) will not be able to pull 5th gear unless it is on dead flat ground with a strong tail wind. If you are looking for better gas mileage then just add taller tires in the back of what you have. If your 4 speed is sloppy like having trouble finding the gears and/or it goes into reverse without you having to push the stick down and over, there are easy (and cheap) fixes without even taking the trans out.

71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

71HANTO

I assume you don't have the T-9 yet? There are different ones for different cars as you mentioned. Some with hydraulic clutch bells that won't work with the Pinto front cross member without undesirable mods. The Merkur XR4TI trans came behind the 2.3 (turbo) and has the correct input shaft length for your application but the ones I've seen have the hydraulic bell. Some of the T-9s (like the one I own) have a locating protrusion so it won't directly mate up to a Pinto 2.3 cable clutch bell without cutting a large chunk out of the back of the bell making for a weak structure. Most on this forum go with the stronger T-5 which is much easier to find. I did this with my street Pinto with a Camaro tail end so I don't need to cut the trans tunnel but you will need to mod the trans mounting and the speedo is an issue but solvable.

71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

Pinto5.0

I can say for sure that 2.0 & 2.3 bellhousings are the same depth & the 4 speeds interchange. The only difference is the upper 2 bolts on the bellhousing.

I don't know the details either but I do remember reading that the input shaft needs shortened a bit on a T9 which is simple to do with a cut off wheel.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

fh4ever

hi all,
I am fairly new here to this site.  I am looking for some help on the T9 conversion to get rid of the Pinto 2.3liter 4 speed. I searched thru the forums here and found some info on the type 9 transmission mated to the 2.0 bellhousing where as the input is too long and either a spacer is made or the shaft is cut off some.  I have a 2.3 engine and bellhousing and wonder if the t-9 is too long for it. Is the 2.0 bellhousing shorter than the 2.3?  Also I found some information elsewhere that the scorpio  T-9 has longer input shaft than the sierra T9. Can anyone confirm?  I also have seen on the site where all stock pinto clutch parts are used except the throwout bearing...cant seem to find this in the forum again...can this be confirmed.  Does the T9 use the pinto driveshaft yoke?   not worried about cutting driveshafts right now, just need to know if the yoke spline is the same.   And there was something mentioned about drilling a hole in the bellhousing to clear something on the T9 transmission...anyone know what this could be?
Am I missing anything else required?
thanks all