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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Brake rotors for a 72 wagon...

Started by jeremysdad, June 16, 2013, 05:25:33 PM

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Pinto5.0

I only found them on Amazon because you posted the Rock Auto part numbers. Without it I doubt I would have turned any up.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

A follow-up report.

As of right now, it looks like I'm butting heads with Rockauto, so I think we'll just be eating the 90 bucks. Lesson learned: always check Amazon. lol

Rotors came today at about 3, and by 4:30 they were installed. OMG it stops sooooo smoothly now!!! :) Now to the alignment shop one more time, and I'm calling this project done for this go around. :) Thanks again for all the input/help/suggestions, guys! :)

Edit to add: I created a thread in Parts Resources with the link to Amazon. (Gave credit to Pinto5.0 :D)

bbobcat75

BY LOOKING AT ALL MOUNTING AND TIE ROD END HOLES AND SO ON ALL LOOK TO BE FACTORY NO MODS AT ALL!! THAT IS WHY I WAS SO f%^&ING CONFUSED WHEN TRYING TO FIX THE BRAKES, LEFT FRONT PADS WHERE WASTED AND GROUNDED THE ROTOR TO NOTHING SO WAS JUST GOING TO DO A EASY ROTOR AND PAD SWAP AND TOOK 5 DAYS TO GET IT DONE, AND ENDED UP BUYING A SET OF USED ROTORS JUST TO SAVE A BUCK AND GET THE CAR BACK ON THE ROAD.

BUT ON A SIDE NOTE THE FRONT RIMS ARE A SET OF EARLY 71-73 MAGS AND IF I HAD THE 74-80 ROTORS THEY WOULDNT FIT SO IT WORKED OUT FOR ME IN THE END!! LOL

TAKE CARE AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BRAKE D BACH ALL!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

That would be a ton of work for no gain if that was done. The tie rod hole would have needed hogged out to work & the upper hole on the late caliper bracket would be off by 5/8" at least plus the lower hole would need a spacer.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 19, 2013, 06:46:08 PM
Yeah, those are late calipers & pads for sure. My guess is you either had the wrong bearings or maybe the new rotor had the race installed part way. All my rotors had races already.

The bearings should have been Set 12 & set 13 in Timken if I remember correctly.

Agreed. I have not seen that caliper set-up, in person, as I have an early model. I question: Have the mounting holes been 'hogged out' to fit the later brackets to the earlier spindles, or vice versa? What I have seen for making the 'All in one' swaps fit early models, it's mainly a mounting-location issue. ;) Been wrong before... lol

They are Set 12 and 13, same seal.

Pinto5.0

Yeah, those are late calipers & pads for sure. My guess is you either had the wrong bearings or maybe the new rotor had the race installed part way. All my rotors had races already.

The bearings should have been Set 12 & set 13 in Timken if I remember correctly.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

bbobcat75

last 4
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

bbobcat75

3 4
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

bbobcat75

pics 2 3 4 5
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

bbobcat75

rotor pic 1
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

Quote from: jeremysdad on June 19, 2013, 09:55:43 AM
I'm not even commenting on that...rofl Good find, I thought about checking Amazon, but didn't. Ah, well...Just a hundred bucks... :/ rofl

Edit: I have emailed the kind folks at Rockauto to see if they will be nice enough to adjust the price of the order for me. Will let ya'll know what they say, and yes...I feel like a tool for not having checked Amazon. lol

I Googled the part number & Amazon popped up. I hope they do something to adjust their price at Rock.

Amazon is where I found my ceramic coated Pacesetter header for 250 bucks. That's what everyone wanted for a painted version
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

bbobcat75

JEREMYSDAD  IF YOU PM ME YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS I WILL SEND SOME PICS OF WHAT I HAVE ON MY CAR! TRIED TO POST ON HERE BUT PHOTOS TOO LARGE, GET THAT EVERY TIME I TRY TO POST A PIC!! GRRRRR
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

jeremysdad

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on June 18, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-6022R-Professional-Grade-Assembly/dp/B001C6QA1Y

I'm not even commenting on that...rofl Good find, I thought about checking Amazon, but didn't. Ah, well...Just a hundred bucks... :/ rofl

Edit: I have emailed the kind folks at Rockauto to see if they will be nice enough to adjust the price of the order for me. Will let ya'll know what they say, and yes...I feel like a tool for not having checked Amazon. lol

Pinto5.0

Having the part number made it easier to find them.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

bbobcat75

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Polara

Will the later spindles bolt on to an older car? I think they are a bit taller and will lower the roll center. They
can be had for about $100 for the pair and the rotors are about $30

jeremysdad

The solid-gold rotors I ordered: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1135112&parttype=1896

I would like to note that these apparently have a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty...having read through the fine print, I believe it would most likely be an 'I already bought these elsewhere and just need a refund' situation (which is why I really hate ordering parts online, but money and all that). But, 3 years and hopefully some money back...cool. I'll take it. :) I'm laying out my Rockauto invoice, overlaying my O'Reilly receipts for new pads and bearings, and saving the resulting picture. :) Saved $70 versus getting them through O'Reilly, and they're Raybestos (probably the exact same thing). Rockauto still has a listing for the Centric part at $10+ less, but add to cart, and they're unavailable. If you want to direct-replace your early rotors, I would advise to get these before they're gone. :)

Here's to smooth braking...having a well running car that accelerates at will is awesome, but stopping smoothly is everything. :)

jeremysdad

New rotors will be here tomorrow, according to Fed-ex. :)

bbobcat, you should pull a wheel and post a pic so we can see what you're working with. As 5.0 stated, you have something weird going on, one way or the other.

Thanks for the input guys! I'm going to run these til they die, and figure out/source parts in the meanwhile.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: bbobcat75 on June 18, 2013, 07:31:13 AM
THESE FRONT BRAKES CONFUSE THE HECK OUT OF ME, MY 78 HAS THE RIGTH CALIPERS BUT USES THE 71-73 ROTORS AND EVERYTHING LOOKS STOCK NO CUTS WELDS OR GRINDING, THE ONLY THING I CAN COME UP WITH IS THE SPINDALS WHERE CHANGED AT SOME POINT OF ITS LIFE, BUT WOULD THINK THE CAILPER MOUNTS WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM A 73 - 74 ?!?!?

The only difference between the rotors appears to be that the late rotors have more meat on them. I'm guessing you had something else keeping you from getting the late rotors on. The late calipers wont bolt to early spindles. I assumed you had the early calipers too.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

bbobcat75

THESE FRONT BRAKES CONFUSE THE HECK OUT OF ME, MY 78 HAS THE RIGTH CALIPERS BUT USES THE 71-73 ROTORS AND EVERYTHING LOOKS STOCK NO CUTS WELDS OR GRINDING, THE ONLY THING I CAN COME UP WITH IS THE SPINDALS WHERE CHANGED AT SOME POINT OF ITS LIFE, BUT WOULD THINK THE CAILPER MOUNTS WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM A 73 - 74 ?!?!?
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

Here's the Granada swap for future reference.

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/front-disc-brakes-(4-5-lug)/

If you look at the after machining pic the rotor that's cut looks like it has as much meat left as the stock early rotor. I'd run them.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

That's kind of what I was imagining you'd have to do. I guess I'll run these solid gold rotors I just bought til they die, and work on figuring out the best way to go in the future for an affordable setup. :) Thanks for the info, maybe I didn't go far enough through the search results.

Side note: Running the newer rotors might make me nervous, having to start with new rotors cut down to their minimum thickness. Anyone else? :)

Pinto5.0

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/how-to-install-5-lug-9'rotors-on-71-73-pinto/

After 2 days I found the info. I was right about machining the rotor on a brake lathe. It has to be cut to fit the early calipers. Get used 4 lug '74-up rotors out of the boneyard & give it a shot.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

The bearings are the same, 71-80. I figured that, being my daily driver, I'd be better off just ponying up and ordering the right stuff for now, so I did. And yeah, it was painful, but after a discount code I found for Rockauto, got both new application specific rotors for $246.42, shipped. (It really hurt to type that number...lol)

In my head, I can see what *should have to be done to make the newer style rotors work, but in the interest of my sanity...at the insistence of my wife, went this route. Ultimately, it boiled down to being unsure whether the caliper/pad combo would fit over the newer rotors. That being said...

There would be some interference between the rotor and the caliper bracket, I'm sure. Personally, I would probably grind the mounting bracket a little, paint it, and call it a day. Yeah, probably lots of grind a little, test fit, remove, etc.

As I said, this is my DD, and I just need it to DD again. My next step, when these new rotors die, is to order a Granada swap kit, and modify it to fit. I figure with the new rotors, I have a few years to acquire the parts to do it all at once, and be done with it.

I wish I had taken pictures of my balljoint retrofit, but when bolted to the control arms, the grinding needed is self explanatory. I found a reference to it working elsewhere here, and rest assured, it does. The only drawback is that when they die, the entire suspension would have to come apart to fit replacements. Hopefully they last. lol

Also, something I couldn't find here (information wise) that has unfortunately cost me the price of another alignment, is strut rod bushing tightening/torque. The answer is succinct (via a classic Mustang forum): Tighten them until you run out of thread. I put this in this post in the hopes of saving someone else the expensive guesswork. lol

One more: Again, hard to explain, but it regards control arm bushing replacement. A little finesse with an air chisel, and they  came right out, even being the original rusted-solid stockers. Just take your time. Same with the rivets on the ball joints (also original)...I had bare control arms in about 15 minutes, just took my time, and paid attention.

bbobcat75

I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT THE OVER ALL ISSUE WAS, THINK THAT THE 74-80 ROTORS WHERE TALLER IE FROM THE BACK OF ROTOR TO THE SPINDAL NUT, SO WHEN I TIGHTENED THE SPINDAL NUT THEY WHERE HITTING THE SPINDAL, PLUS NOT SITTING IN THE CALIPER CORRECTLY, I KNOW I DOUBLE CHECKED THE BEARINGS AND SEALS, THE USE THE SAME SEALS BUT DIFFERENT BEARS, NOW I DIDNT TRY TO SWAP BEARINGS, NOW IM THINKING I SHOULD HAVE.  IF I REMEMBER ANYTHING ELSE WILL POST AN UPDATE.

IF YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO USED THE NEW ROTORS ON THE OLDER SPINDALS PLEASE LET ME KNOW WILL CONVERT MINE WHEN NEEDED, NOT INTO PAYING OUT THE @SS FOR STOCK NON PERFORMANCE ROTORS!!!

TAKE CARE
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

jeremysdad

Well h***fire. lol Guess it's time to drop back and punt. Thanks, guys.

bbobcat, do you remember where/what they may have been hitting that was preventing them from turning? I can so live without dust shields, if need be. :) Sorry for the questions, but I really don't want to have to have it apart sitting on stands for another week while I experiment and  figure out what to do with it. :)

bbobcat75

thses brakes are a pain, i have a 78 wagon ordered new rotors for , no big deal they are the same from 74-80! well some one before i bought it installed 72-73 spindals and rotors but i have the 74-80 brake calipers, tried to use the 74-80 rotors but when i got to tighten the spindal nut, they didnt spin didnt fit for nothing, got a set of 73 rotors and bolted up great!! not sure what the over all difference is but there is one!!!
good luck!!!    and the 71 -73 rotors are way!!! over priced  the cheapest i found was $110 a piece and they are so small and thin!! what a rip!!! o well, just venting!!!

take care
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

TIGGER

Pinto brakes are all the same regardless of body style. So any 71-73 brake parts should fit your wagon.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

D.R.Ball

I checked Rockauto.com and could not find disc brakes for a wagon. I'm not sure why. The sizes for the non wagons between 1972 and 1974 are  the height 3.79" for the 1972 (non wagon ) and 3.91" for the 1974, also the thickness is different NOM thickness is 0.75" for the 1972 and 0.88" for the 1974. Also the hub size is also different 2.43" for the 1972 and 2.51" for the 1974. I do not know if they can be machined to fit. So what is the difference between the wagons and the rest of the Pintos for that year ? Take your hubs in to a machinist and have them measure it out. The specs are on Rockauto.com and when you click on the info wiki it should pop up with a parts diagram from centric. I hope this helps.